Salmonella and death of young drake

silversong

In the Brooder
May 10, 2015
15
3
44
Prince Edward Island
A young rouen drake (about a year old) that we recently purchased died after only showing signs of distress for about a day. The morning he did not come out of the coop with the hens so we shooed him out to join them. We went away for the day and came home to see him sitting in the yard beside the waterer, in apparent distress, looking lethargic. He died shortly after.

Autopsy showed massive salmonella infection, suspected start 7 -10 days before death. The ducks have been housed with our small flock of chickens, sharing the coop, fenced yard, feed (though they had their own feed, they often ate the chicken feed) and water. They were allowed supervised free range in the backyard starting approx 10 days before the drake died.

On what at first seems like a different issue, but I include here in case it ends up being pertinent, we have a four year old production hen that survived a coon attack this summer but did have her comb torn badly at the base (our young white hen was not so fortunate). About a week after the attack, the old girl became very sick, diarrhea, vomiting, lethargic...we thought at the time she was battling an infection and would likely die. But, she found some reserve and made what seemed like a full recovery, and even started laying eggs again when the ducks were introduced. She seemed to prefer hanging out with the ducks over hanging with the young chicks we raised this summer, sharing the ducks bed area, feed, and nest for laying so was in close contact with the ducks for about one month. Then the drake died. About a week later, the old hen is very sick again.

We returned the two rouen hens to the owner when the drake since at that time we did not know what caused his death but suspected possible rat bite (we have not seen any rats, but we are seeing some signs of tunneling in the fenced yard). So far, the rouen hens have not shown any sign of illness, so fingers crossed.

Could the old hen have picked up salmonella from the coon attack, survived the infection, passed it to the drake and is now re-infected? Can ducks get salmonella from chickens? Dr. Barry writes that salmonella deaths in ducks often result from rats, contaminated feed or free ranging. Since all the birds are eating each others feed (note: I've been adding some whole barley to their diet of layer crumbs) and other than the old girl, everyone seems fine.

Really worried this may spread to the flock so need to find the culprit for the salmonella. Dr. Barry recommends adding beneficial bacteria to battle salmonella, but I'm not having any luck finding the product he recommends. I know yoghurt is full of good bacteria, but doubt the flock would eat enough to do any good.

Thoughts, ideas, suggestions, recommendations appreciated!!!!
 
Hi there - sorry for your losses,
Salmonella - can be carried by chickens but rarely causes a problem unless conditions become unsanitary or you have a weak, susceptible bird. Also bear in mind that wild birds and fowl can carry it too.
My personal solution would be to feed and water ducks & chickens separately. All waterers/feeders need to be scrubbed daily. Ensure the ducks have plenty of clean drinking water, apart from the water they swim in. Try to keep the livestock areas free from mud/muck since ducks love to dabble!
I suspect the drake drank some contaminated water/feed and succumbed to massive infection. Be aware too that if ducks drink from heavily 'duck poop' contaminated water they likely will get botulism - which is generally fatal.
hope this helps a little,
smile.png
 
A young rouen drake (about a year old) that we recently purchased died after only showing signs of distress for about a day. The morning he did not come out of the coop with the hens so we shooed him out to join them. We went away for the day and came home to see him sitting in the yard beside the waterer, in apparent distress, looking lethargic. He died shortly after.

Autopsy showed massive salmonella infection, suspected start 7 -10 days before death. The ducks have been housed with our small flock of chickens, sharing the coop, fenced yard, feed (though they had their own feed, they often ate the chicken feed) and water. They were allowed supervised free range in the backyard starting approx 10 days before the drake died.

On what at first seems like a different issue, but I include here in case it ends up being pertinent, we have a four year old production hen that survived a coon attack this summer but did have her comb torn badly at the base (our young white hen was not so fortunate). About a week after the attack, the old girl became very sick, diarrhea, vomiting, lethargic...we thought at the time she was battling an infection and would likely die. But, she found some reserve and made what seemed like a full recovery, and even started laying eggs again when the ducks were introduced. She seemed to prefer hanging out with the ducks over hanging with the young chicks we raised this summer, sharing the ducks bed area, feed, and nest for laying so was in close contact with the ducks for about one month. Then the drake died. About a week later, the old hen is very sick again.

We returned the two rouen hens to the owner when the drake since at that time we did not know what caused his death but suspected possible rat bite (we have not seen any rats, but we are seeing some signs of tunneling in the fenced yard). So far, the rouen hens have not shown any sign of illness, so fingers crossed.

Could the old hen have picked up salmonella from the coon attack, survived the infection, passed it to the drake and is now re-infected? Can ducks get salmonella from chickens? Dr. Barry writes that salmonella deaths in ducks often result from rats, contaminated feed or free ranging. Since all the birds are eating each others feed (note: I've been adding some whole barley to their diet of layer crumbs) and other than the old girl, everyone seems fine.

Really worried this may spread to the flock so need to find the culprit for the salmonella. Dr. Barry recommends adding beneficial bacteria to battle salmonella, but I'm not having any luck finding the product he recommends. I know yoghurt is full of good bacteria, but doubt the flock would eat enough to do any good.

Thoughts, ideas, suggestions, recommendations appreciated!!!!
Can you tell us the name of the product Dr. Barry recommends? Maybe we can help you find it. However, active salmonella is a bacterial infection that I've always understood could only be treated with antibiotics. I'm thinking that pre- or probiotics would be more of a preventive for birds without active infection than a treatment for birds that are already infected.

Some strains of salmonella are very easily spread among poultry, and even to humans in some cases. I can't tell from this post whether you still have ducks or only chickens now. What I would do in your situation is to have my birds tested, or at least to have a good sampling of them tested if you have a lot of birds. I'm not sure how that would be done in Canada, but it doesn't have to be done by a vet here in the US. Any certified poultry technician can do it, and it's done by cloacal swabbing. The swabs are submitted to a state lab for testing. If it's done by a CPT rather than a vet, the total cost here really isn't very much. If done by a vet, it can be very expensive. If any more of my birds were positive in this situation, I'd ask my vet about treating the whole flock. Some of the antibiotics for treating early infections can be added to the drinking water.

@Amiga , is there anything you can add here?
 
JadeComputerGal has covered quite a bit. I would hope others might check in here. From what I know salmonella can go undetected for a while, depending on the state of health of the animals.

And some non-antibiotics that boost the immune system are probably helpful in preventing illness. That would include probiotics, perhaps oregano and others.

So I think (not an expert) that it is conceivable the hen could have had a latent infection that the drake picked up. I would look into testing and treating the flock.

Although it can happen, I would not assume it's the rodents. Not every rodent carries disease as far as I know.
 
JadeComputerGal has covered quite a bit. I would hope others might check in here. From what I know salmonella can go undetected for a while, depending on the state of health of the animals.

And some non-antibiotics that boost the immune system are probably helpful in preventing illness. That would include probiotics, perhaps oregano and others.

So I think (not an expert) that it is conceivable the hen could have had a latent infection that the drake picked up. I would look into testing and treating the flock.

Although it can happen, I would not assume it's the rodents. Not every rodent carries disease as far as I know.

Absolutely. Not all rodents are disease carriers. Wild rodents can carry a lot of diseases because they go around everywhere and are scavengers that will eat whatever they can find, including rotting food. Some things will affect the rodents themselves, and some things they only carry. Really the same thing as with many other animals, e.g., a dog that's not exposed to rabies isn't just going to come down with rabies.

And, as you said, some poultry never show symptoms. Some can be treated and recover, and some can fight it off, but both can still remain carriers. It can be communicated even through the eggs of a carrier duck, which is a kind of scary thing depending on the strain.

I'm very curious about the oregano. Is that helpful? I've never heard of that. How would you feed it to ducks? I'd be willing to do that. I'm always more in favor of natural remedies or preventives.
 
JadeComputerGal has covered quite a bit. I would hope others might check in here. From what I know salmonella can go undetected for a while, depending on the state of health of the animals.

And some non-antibiotics that boost the immune system are probably helpful in preventing illness. That would include probiotics, perhaps oregano and others.

So I think (not an expert) that it is conceivable the hen could have had a latent infection that the drake picked up. I would look into testing and treating the flock.

Although it can happen, I would not assume it's the rodents. Not every rodent carries disease as far as I know.

Sorry for the second post on this, but I realized I wasn't clear in my last post and don't like to edit my posts unless I make a dumb typo. I didn't mean I've never heard of oregano. I meant I've never heard of it being something that might be beneficial to feed our ducks. Sorry about that.

(Well, edited this one for a stupid typo where I had typed "ans" instead of "and."
 
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Well, I must be tired . . . I did not mean to imply you did not know about oregano
lol.png
I was just going through a short list of items known to help poultry resist infections.
 
Well, I must be tired . . . I did not mean to imply you did not know about oregano
lol.png
I was just going through a short list of items known to help poultry resist infections.

LOL. You didn't imply that. I made it sound that way myself when I said, "I'm very curious about the oregano. Is that helpful? I've never heard of that." I realized in rereading it that it sounded like I'd never heard of oregano when what I meant is that I'd never heard of giving it to ducks for something.

How would we give that to our ducks? We grow oregano, so I'm wondering if it would be okay to float it in their water like the greens we give them.
 
Whew. I took a quick nap … Here is an article about using oregano http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/26/s...ry-oregano-as-antibiotic-substitute.html?_r=0

There may be recommended doses somewhere - but I generally feel that a weak tea added to water (not very scientific at this stage) may be an idea.

Or, I might finely chop the oregano and sprinkle a couple of tablespoons on top of their water and see how it goes. We can overdo it even with fairly benign things like herbs - so I would urge anyone to do their due diligence on how much, how often.

Perhaps someone has some recommendations they can offer. I think there are some natural poultry raising sites that probably share what they use.
 

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