Sand litter in cold winter climates?

[M_Struna]

We just started our chicken journey so I am learning on the fly and trying my best to prepare for things in advance. We’ve built our own coop and it’s quite sturdy. Insulation under the metal roof and in the walls. It’s 8x8’ with an 8x12’ run. We have 10 one month old hens. I found out that I’m severely allergic to pine shavings to the point I almost had an asthma attack in the coop one day. We decided to switch to sand litter for my health. We live in NE Ohio where the temps can get pretty low in the winter. I’ve been reading that sand isn’t recommended in the winter because the chickens can get frostbite on their feet. I’d be grateful for feedback or suggestions. It’s built on 4X4s and we coated the floor with rubberized material. There’s about 3” of sand throughout and we can’t go any deeper than that. There are 4 single-paned windows, two on each side, west and east. I’ve read about aspen shavings but what I’ve found are maybe too fine for a coop?

 

[Ted Brown]

My climate is very similar to yours, perhaps colder.

I use deep pine bedding in my coop, have only used sand with PDZ on the drop boards. That worked, I think because the PDZ does it's absorbing thing while the combo mostly prevents waste from freezing to the boards.

I have read sand works very well in a hot dry climate, like you have read that sand in freezing weather has issues; cold for certain, worse if wet from waste, horrid if waste builds and difficult to remove in the middle of winter.

As mentioned I use drop boards with PDZ and the majority of waste falls there. Given this my bedding easily lasts a year, very little mess. I mention this because you do not indicate your roost/drop board situation. If you continue with the sand I would strongly recommend drop boards.

Have you researched alternative wood chips, even if you have to have them chipped up by a local? (Cedar not recommended!)

Have you considered hemp for coop bedding? Expensive I know but with health issues...

Good luck!

 

[Mother of Chaos]

We just started our chicken journey so I am learning on the fly and trying my best to prepare for things in advance. We’ve built our own coop and it’s quite sturdy. Insulation under the metal roof and in the walls. It’s 8x8’ with an 8x12’ run. We have 10 one month old hens. I found out that I’m severely allergic to pine shavings to the point I almost had an asthma attack in the coop one day. We decided to switch to sand litter for my health. We live in NE Ohio where the temps can get pretty low in the winter. I’ve been reading that sand isn’t recommended in the winter because the chickens can get frostbite on their feet. I’d be grateful for feedback or suggestions. It’s built on 4X4s and we coated the floor with rubberized material. There’s about 3” of sand throughout and we can’t go any deeper than that. There are 4 single-paned windows, two on each side, west and east. I’ve read about aspen shavings but what I’ve found are maybe too fine for a coop?

Do you have any idea whether you’d have the same reaction to pine straw? (dried pine needles) Maybe the allergen isn’t pine itself, but something specific to pine flakes.

Other possibilities: dead leaves, shredded hardwood mulch.

Or as Ted mentioned, chips from a local lumber mill, if there is one.

 

[saysfaa]

We just started our chicken journey so I am learning on the fly and trying my best to prepare for things in advance. We’ve built our own coop and it’s quite sturdy. Insulation under the metal roof and in the walls. It’s 8x8’ with an 8x12’ run. We have 10 one month old hens. I found out that I’m severely allergic to pine shavings to the point I almost had an asthma attack in the coop one day. We decided to switch to sand litter for my health. We live in NE Ohio where the temps can get pretty low in the winter. I’ve been reading that sand isn’t recommended in the winter because the chickens can get frostbite on their feet. I’d be grateful for feedback or suggestions. It’s built on 4X4s and we coated the floor with rubberized material. There’s about 3” of sand throughout and we can’t go any deeper than that. There are 4 single-paned windows, two on each side, west and east. I’ve read about aspen shavings but what I’ve found are maybe too fine for a coop?

I'm in a similar climate. I didn't hear about sand contributing to frostbitten feet.

I tried sand about 3" deep on the drop board one year. I hated it in the winter because it built up into a cone under each favorite roosting spot and it was impossible to do anything with it. This despite scooping thoroughly every day.

I liked it in the summer for a while but scooping the poops still left moisture that gradually made the whole thing damp. That is went I found out replacing the sand is a royal pain. It is even heavier when damp, and finding a place to dump it was not easy.

I would do coffee grounds if I had a source. I've heard some people have gotten them from coffee shops because the managers would rather they were composted (directly or after being chicken litter) than thrown away. But that didn't work for me.

I like maple leaves best.

But I don't think sand contributes to frostbitten feet unless other things are making them vulnerable. My hens spent a lot of time standing and walking on the sand on the droppings boards the year I did the sand and their feet were warm when I felt them.

The "other things" include: lots of ventilation, enough water to drink, lots of ventilation, enough to eat, lots of ventilation

 

[M_Struna]

My climate is very similar to yours, perhaps colder.

I use deep pine bedding in my coop, have only used sand with PDZ on the drop boards. That worked, I think because the PDZ does it's absorbing thing while the combo mostly prevents waste from freezing to the boards.

I have read sand works very well in a hot dry climate, like you have read that sand in freezing weather has issues; cold for certain, worse if wet from waste, horrid if waste builds and difficult to remove in the middle of winter.

As mentioned I use drop boards with PDZ and the majority of waste falls there. Given this my bedding easily lasts a year, very little mess. I mention this because you do not indicate your roost/drop board situation. If you continue with the sand I would strongly recommend drop boards.

Have you researched alternative wood chips, even if you have to have them chipped up by a local? (Cedar not recommended!)

Have you considered hemp for coop bedding? Expensive I know but with health issues...

Good luck!

Thank you! Our coop plans didn’t include dropping boards and I’ve just been learning about them. The girls are still young at a little over six weeks of age. Their waste is everywhere. I seldom see them on the roosting bar (2x4 laid flat) though I’m sure they use it. Is heavy duty roosting more of a thing as they age? Right now we have the attached 8’ board but I just bought four joist hangers and we plan on doing two removable roosting bars. Are the dropping boards typically suspended or placed on the coop floor?
I had considered Aspen shavings but would have to buy a commercial product. From what I understand, the local sawmills don’t separate out the wood chips by tree type, so their chips are a mixture of whatever they’ve used. Possibly pine and cedar? That said, I’m strongly leaning toward hemp. I know its a bit costly, but it seems like my best option.
I bought PDZ this week to mix in with the sand. Despite my best efforts the sand is taking on a slight odor. Barn lime didn’t seem to do much so I’m going to give the PDZ a go. I know they are birds and are going to smell a bit. I just don’t know to what extent.

 

[M_Struna]

Do you have any idea whether you’d have the same reaction to pine straw? (dried pine needles) Maybe the allergen isn’t pine itself, but something specific to pine flakes.

Other possibilities: dead leaves, shredded hardwood mulch.

Or as Ted mentioned, chips from a local lumber mill, if there is one.

My guess is it would be the same. If I get swiped by a pine branch while mowing I get a raised red rash.
Would bringing organic matter into the coop invite pests such as live and mites? I don’t plan on free-ranging. They’d get taken out by our barn cats in a day. But they do have a 8x10’ covered run that I plan to put sand in once they pick it clean.

 

[M_Struna]

I'm in a similar climate. I didn't hear about sand contributing to frostbitten feet.

I tried sand about 3" deep on the drop board one year. I hated it in the winter because it built up into a cone under each favorite roosting spot and it was impossible to do anything with it. This despite scooping thoroughly every day.

I liked it in the summer for a while but scooping the poops still left moisture that gradually made the whole thing damp. That is went I found out replacing the sand is a royal pain. It is even heavier when damp, and finding a place to dump it was not easy.

I would do coffee grounds if I had a source. I've heard some people have gotten them from coffee shops because the managers would rather they were composted (directly or after being chicken litter) than thrown away. But that didn't work for me.

I like maple leaves best.

But I don't think sand contributes to frostbitten feet unless other things are making them vulnerable. My hens spent a lot of time standing and walking on the sand on the droppings boards the year I did the sand and their feet were warm when I felt them.

The "other things" include: lots of ventilation, enough water to drink, lots of ventilation, enough to eat, lots of ventilation

Thank you for your insight! Yeah, we’ll see how we feel about using sand every summer once we deal with removing it this fall! We are leaning toward hemp bedding, unless something more cost effective presents itself. Still looking. I’m thinking on a drop board. I’m not sure how we’d corporate that into our coop. I don’t know much about them.

I’m glad you brought up ventilation, tho! Just how much ventilation is needed? We have a ventilation fan to put in with a thermostat. We bought a couple louvered vents, but weren’t happy with the looks of them. I’ve seen people drill holes with circular wood blades and cover with mesh. We have a 5” blade. The wall opposite where the fan is going is covered by the run roof, so louvers aren’t necessary. How many do you think will be sufficient? The coop walls and roof are insulated.

 

[rural mouse]

I've found aspen shavings in bales the same size as the pine shavings at WALMART of all places. In the pet department next to the cedar and pine bales.

Some people use the cat litter pellet that expand when wet. Dunno what sort of wood is used in those, but worth investigating.

 

[M_Struna]

I've found aspen shavings in bales the same size as the pine shavings at WALMART of all places. In the pet department next to the cedar and pine bales.

Some people use the cat litter pellet that expand when wet. Dunno what sort of wood is used in those, but worth investigating.

Thank you! I’ll check that out.

 

[Ted Brown]

... Are the dropping boards typically suspended or placed on the coop floor?
...
I bought PDZ this week to mix in with the sand. Despite my best efforts the sand is taking on a slight odor. Barn lime didn’t seem to do much so I’m going to give the PDZ a go. I know they are birds and are going to smell a bit. I just don’t know to what extent.

Drop boards are normally elevated off the floor so that they are some inches below the roost bars. Chickens prefer to roost at the highest level possible, youngsters sometimes need to be placed on the roosts for several evenings before they get it. More importantly, place the drop boards at a level that makes it easy for YOU to do the cleanup.

When my coop takes on an odour it is because I have failed to clean the boards; flies will also increase. If one uses drop boards and cleans them frequently (many folks do it daily!) no smell is the norm.

Good luck.