Sebastopol geese - selecting breeding stock, color genetics, and color improvement

[LTygress]

LOVE THIS THREAD!

I had a conversation in a thread recently about chickens matching up "to standard".

The problem with breed standards, is that they are so GENERIC in terminology, that almost anyone can interpret it a different way. When it comes to show judges, they could each have their own opinion of what the wording in the standard really means. Now it's true that judges have to go through apprenticeship programs, and take exams. But it STILL comes down to the judge's interpretation of the typed word.

For example, in dog shows, the word "stop" defines the point where a dog's snout turns UP to go between the eyes. The wording in the standard for one breed may say "dog should have medium stop". What the he** does that mean?!? Well, an airedale terrier has NO stop. It's a straight line from the tip of his nose to the top of his head. But what is medium?

One judge may look at a dog and point it out to his apprentice and say "this is a medium stop, you don't want it too straight, or leaning too much". But how exactly is the apprentice interpreting that? One judge may think a 30-degree angle is "medium" while another thinks it should be 45-degrees. Someone else may think the stop should start RIGHT before the eyes, while another thinks it should start a few millimeters in front of the eye sockets. Which one is correct? It's not like the standard gives measurements or PICTURES to compare to. And if it does give measurements, I don't see anyone carrying around a protractor to get exact angles!

So a LOT of it is left up to interpretation. You may even have an apprentice that is thinking "THIS JUDGE IS WRONG, I'LL DO IT MY WAY WHEN I GET TO BE JUDGE!" So a lot of it could actually be LOST in the variants, too.

But this thread is different. You all are showing colors, showing examples, pointing out what is wrong, and showing photos of what it SHOULD look like! That is beyond the most helpful thing out there for people who may one day want to show their geese - or at the very least, breed for improvement.

Once I get my sebbies, I will probably be back looking for opinions and advice. In the meantime, I'm going to keep up with this, and keep reading it, so I know exactly what to look for. I'm mostly focused on having my babies for pets, above anything else. And thankfully Sebbies are one of the most docile breeds of geese, so I'm not worried about that at all. But now, if I ever choose to breed them on purpose, I know where I can go to look for advice and explanations!

THANK YOU!

 

[seminolewind]

I got pinched this morning. I guess he didn't see me flapping my wings and hissing. He just ignored it and bit my thigh. Shame on him!

 

[Cottage Rose]

I got pinched this morning. I guess he didn't see me flapping my wings and hissing. He just ignored it and bit my thigh. Shame on him!

When ganders reach breeding age they become noble protectors of their family.
That is only natural and we should respect that chivalry BUT as humans we don't like getting bit or slapped by those strong wings so when a gander gets too uppity with me I grab them (careful of those flapping wings/they can do some damage) and I either hold them firmly in my lap, tight and cozy or I pin them to the ground then I rub their heads to annoy them even further. Hold them down securely for a few minutes in a display of dominance.
I also call them insulting names just for fun like... "you wuss, you don't scare me" or "whose your daddy now?!"

This usually works to keep them at bay but can be repeated as needed until they get the idea that you're boss and you will not tolerate getting bit.
Whenever a gander starts too aggressively come after you like he's going to bite,
face him and walk confidently toward him and if he doesn't back off use the hug and rub method.
I have one gander that is sweet as pie during the off season but during the breeding season he thinks
I look like a big target and yes he has more than once bitten me on the butt and thigh as I was bending
over to take eggs out of the nest.
Some never need the hug method and will merely get hissy during the breeding season but if you have
a biter try this method and see if it helps.
Always keep an eye on your gander when working around them during the breeding season and do not allow children around them unsupervised at any time.

 

[ashandvine]

I am so grateful for these stories. They are not only moments of laughter and reassurance but they come at a slow and cold time of the year. I haven't made it all the way through the thread yet. Still trying to memorize genetic determinations in color, but I plan to work only white and pied/saddles, and in that, I only have grey. There hasn't been a goos answer yet about what twt is, as in its genetic reasoning. I would like to know if, like wry tail, it passes on or can be bred out. At this time I would also eagerly ask someone to post pictures of any curly pieds they have which are not grey or buff, ie other colors. Ms Vicki... is that you scurrying for the camera?? I hope so!

 

[seminolewind]

Thanks, Cottage Rose. I think he meant business this morning and was going to nip me no matter what. He left the lettuce I put out, and ran over to me 20 feet away and I flapped and growled, and he still nipped. I carried a small stick this afternoon and when he came near me I tickled his tail feathers and he did not like that at all. Hopefully he'll remember that. Hug and hold? If I can I will.

 

[Cottage Rose]

A&V...when you say "pied" do you mean saddlebacks?
If you click on my photo links below you will see some saddlebacks.

 

[ashandvine]

Yes I mean saddles. I call it pied because in reading Peter's work on genetics done in conuunction with you which he posted he called the saddles "pied." I have four grey saddle backs right now, but only one is a Seb. White and saddles/pied are what I want to work with here. I love the buffs and I love lilac as a color but grey is what I have and so I am going to limit myself to that. I will eagerly admire everyone else's though. I looked through some of your pics and didn't see any lilac or cream saddles etc. I still just see greys and buffs. Is that really all there is?

 

[Cottage Rose]

Yes I mean saddles. I call it pied because in reading Peter's work on genetics done in conuunction with you which he posted he called the saddles "pied." I have four grey saddle backs right now, but only one is a Seb. White and saddles/pied are what I want to work with here. I love the buffs and I love lilac as a color but grey is what I have and so I am going to limit myself to that. I will eagerly admire everyone else's though. I looked through some of your pics and didn't see any lilac or cream saddles etc. I still just see greys and buffs. Is that really all there is?

Ok thanks, just wanted to make sure. People use terminology that might always mean the same thing to all people.
I only have grey and blue saddlebacks but would like to expand to other colored SB but just haven't gotten around
to doing that yet due to trying to keep my numbers down. Theron Smith is trying to organize getting SB 's APA recognised
color so maybe you can join in on the efforts if you have a special interest in them.

 

[ashandvine]

That sounds promising. I am new enough to geese [only three years in] that I don't know a lot of folks. I know some names, like yours, Dave Dave and Pete, Shelly, Amy and Chris. That's the gang I know. Well, I 'talk' to Ms Magoo sometimes too but I only really know two of you. I still cant' see the difference between blue and grey. Maybe I am aging to quickly.... ? Looking at my first serious hatch this year and fretting over the incubating bit. I have a smooth gander with a curly white female who I will let have a go with my saddle back goose as well but I also have a Pom [grey saddle] I was thinking of putting in with her too so that I knew a few of the offspring would be certainly be saddleback/pied even if it means they will all be smooth breasted. This gander happens to have a rounder head than my other Poms so I thought he might help put a little bulk in the Sebbies and guarantee that pattern. Feedback is welcome [so long as its stated politely].


edited to add that there are a few other 'big names' I have talked to in the bird world but so does half the bird world....

 

[laurenvibe]

I'm hunting a hatchling to love. Literally, be a member of my babies. I have 1 female white sebastopol that I love and I want a friend that isn't white male or female to add. Any one near western Louisiana???