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Sebastopol Question???

Discussion in 'Geese' started by JordanFamily, Jan 30, 2011.

  1. JordanFamily

    JordanFamily Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Feb 4, 2008
    Harrisonville, MO
    Can a smooth breasted goose and a smooth breasted gander have curly breasted offspring? If so what would a guess at the percentage of curlies be if all grandparents were curly??? Thanks
     
  2. swheat

    swheat The Bantam Barn

    Mar 18, 2008
    Alabama
    My Coop
    I would like to know the answer to. [​IMG]
     
  3. DaveK

    DaveK Chillin' With My Peeps

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    It is not impossible that two smooth breasted birds produce a curly breasted bird. There are a few instances of it happening to people I believe are honest and who had paired birds up and knew who was who. But you cannot count on it. On the other hand if all four grandparents are curly you'd not be working with smooth breasted birds at all. Curly bred to curly breasted produces only more curly breasted. No "throwbacks" or anything else to smooth breasted even if the background contains smooth breasted. There are some discussions on the smooth breasted birds at www.sebastopols.freeforums.org
     
  4. JordanFamily

    JordanFamily Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Harrisonville, MO
    Quote:Thanks sooo much... I didn;t know that two curlies could only have curly... Is that where they say angel wing and other feather problems come from? Too many curlies in the lines??? [​IMG]
     
  5. Cottage Rose

    Cottage Rose Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Jun 24, 2008
    Mid west Michigan
    Quote:Sebastopols have a condition called "twisted wing tip" which is when the little bony tip on the end of their wing curls back and makes
    some of the primary feathers stick out at awkward angles. This is most likely due to there unique curly feather
    mutation and very common is Sebastopols. I think its "the nature of the beast" and I doubt it can be bred out entirely.
    Supposedly if you breed smooth x curly Sebs this suppose to reduce this problem but who knows.
    I have seen offspring of smooth x curly parents that displayed this disorder at quite an early age.
    TWT differs from Angel Wing.
    I have a page on my website with articles on Angel Wing and TWT by experienced and respected waterfowl breeders.
    Maybe this will help answer some of your questions better than I can.
     
  6. Cottage Rose

    Cottage Rose Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Mid west Michigan
    P.S. I have a friend that has a curly offspring out of 2 smooth parents but chances on that happening are unlikely.
    I do know that smooth x curly does not ruin the curly offspring chances of having great feathering.
    If you have a smooth goose or gander that has great type that you want to utilize in your breeding
    program I would not hesitate to use them.

    This goose and gander's father is very smooth...

    "Blueberry Muffin"
    [​IMG]

    "Chardonnay"
    He has twisted wing tip...note short feathers sticking out.
    He is full brother to Blueberry Muffin above who has perfect wings
    so go figure.
    I think years of selective breeding, observation and documentation would
    be the only way to solve all the questions about TWT and Angel Wing.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2011
  7. daze333

    daze333 Chillin' With My Peeps

    Dec 26, 2008
    Port Angeles, WA
    Thank you so much Cottage rose! The pics of the two ganders makes it very clear! I had several of these type of questions too!

    Is it bad to breed curly to curly? I breed frizzles and I know you want to breed frizzled to smooth with them or it can cause trouble in brittle feathers etc.

    Also-if you breed curly to smooth what are the chances of getting curly offspring? Is it 50/50 like frizzles?

    Also do I need to worry about stiff wing feathers? Or is this also just part of sebbies?
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2011
  8. DaveK

    DaveK Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Sebastopols are not the same as frizzle chickens and there isn't any reason to not breed curly breasted only if that is what the breeder wishes. Dave Holderread has probably the best mind and the most opportunity for doing the sort of research that might yield some answers and is the best one to glean this kind of information from. There is a posting with Rare Feathers farm as the original poster dated 11-13-'10 about twisted wing tips in Sebastopol geese. She has inserted the Reader's Digest condensed in a nutshell version of his findings that Dave has written up. Worth a look. There are probably other discussions here on BYC and I know that both twisted tips and the use of smooth breasted birds has been discussed at www.sebastopols.freeforums.org Angel wing can be at least partly genetic and can affect any and all waterfowl when they are growing their first set of wing feathers as babies. Too much protein? Too much energy producing foods? There are ideas but no hard and fast rules. Twisted wing tip affects only Sebastopol geese and for anyone truly interested in this aspect of the breed I would suggest using the search option here and on the Sebastopol Forums. Most of us who have been doing this a while tend to agree with Dave Holderread's findings though some feel more strongly than he seems to that once the birds are curly and of excellent quality the twisted tips are just as likely to make an appearance no matter there being smooth breasted influence or not. Just one more aspect of Sebastopols which makes them a real challenge for the serious breeder but not a big deal for a more casual interest as very often the twist is difficult or impossibe to see even with the bird standing right at your feet as many of them do.
     
  9. dreamcatcherarabians

    dreamcatcherarabians Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Jul 29, 2010
    Stillwater
    I'd like to get some good quality Sebastopol's for my farm, but would really rather not just buy from the nurseries as I think Private Party generally have the better stock. Can anyone give me some recommendations of private breeders with good young birds for sale? Would prefer not to hatch as I'm not terribly familiar with that yet and understand Sebbies can be somewhat difficult in their fertility.
     
  10. theron

    theron Theron's Fowl Farm

    Nov 15, 2009
    Midland, MI
    Quote:Well, I got three of my sebastopols from the BYCer CottageRose and I am really enjoying them. Thankfully she lives in michigan and we didn't have to ship them, but if you wouldn't mind paying shipping, I am sure CottageRose will have some teenagers for sale in the fall and goslings for sale in the spring. Go to her website and she has all of the ordering info there. [​IMG]

    These are the three I got from her.
    [​IMG]
     

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