Self-Blue Cochin Bantams

[poofball]

Tom Your birds are really shaping up. They are beautiful !

 

[cochinman2005]

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Thanks!

 

[shawnadoodlebug]

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is this what you are going for

 

[cochinman2005]

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is this what you are going for

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-PfW9WjI2C-Y/Toto8-FS6HI/AAAAAAAAAIY/2O65JxVuxVs/s250/lavender+cochins.jpg

Essentially yes, but birds that meet the standard description not necessarily the artist's rendition.

 

[shawnadoodlebug]

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is this what you are going for

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-PfW9WjI2C-Y/Toto8-FS6HI/AAAAAAAAAIY/2O65JxVuxVs/s250/lavender+cochins.jpg

Essentially yes, but birds that meet the standard description not necessarily the artist's rendition.

yeah that is what I mean

I love to have some birds like that so vary pretty

 

[rancher hicks]

Please allow a question or two.

One : I thought "blue" was a darker color. What started out as "self blue" turned into lavender (through this discussion), what happened to the "blue"?

B. I have an orp hen from AL that appears to be a splash. She has a light lav color with black splashes. I intend to breed her to a nice black from hinkjc. Shouldn't I get darker "blues" as opposed to lavender?

Three: I also have Lavenders from hinkjc, which I intend to breed to the only roo of the five. So I will get all lavenders?

Four: Now one of these lavender hens is not so nice as the others (skinny) so if I breed her to one of the blacks (i have two) from hinkjc, I will get?

E: The thing is I'm getting confused with the "self blue", "blue" and "lavender" thing. What's the difference between a "self blue" and a "lavender"?

Thanks,

Rancher

 

[cochinman2005]

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To answer your questions:
1) You will never get me to use the "L" word to describe this variety. The variety is Self-Blue. It's been a recognized variety by both the APA and ABA for years. Simply put, Self-Blue bred to Self-Blue produces 100% Self-Blue, hense the variety name "Self-Blue."
2) Self Blue is based on the "Lav" genetics, whereas Blue, which is a darker slate base color, is diluted Black.
3) I started this thread for Self-Blue Cochins, which do not exist in any quality in the U.S. to provide updates as far as my progress in improving the type and color. Others have participated in the thread, and used the "L" word.
4) I can't tell you what you will get from your possible Splash Orpington Hen bred to a Black for sure, but if she is indeed a Splash, then bred to a Black you should get 100% Blues. Not Self-Blues, but regular Blues. These will be of varying shade because of the dilution of Black, introduced with the Splash. Blue and Self-Blue have totally different color descriptions per the Standard of Perfection. If you don't have a Standard, I'd recommend purchasing one. It's 100% required if you are interesting in breeding any variety to the Standard.
5) For your proposed Self-Blue Orpington X Self-Blue Orpington breeding. As long as they are indeed Self-Blues, then you will get 100% Self-Blues.
(6) Self-Blue bred to Black = 100% Black offspring, but they are splits. So Self-Blue split to Black. You could take these back to each other in the f2, in which case you'd get 25% Self-Blues, or back to Self-Blues, in which case you'd get 50% Self-Blues in the f2 generation.

 

[rancher hicks]

Quote:
To answer your questions:
1) You will never get me to use the "L" word to describe this variety. The variety is Self-Blue. It's been a recognized variety by both the APA and ABA for years. Simply put, Self-Blue bred to Self-Blue produces 100% Self-Blue, hense the variety name "Self-Blue."
2) Self Blue is based on the "Lav" genetics, whereas Blue, which is a darker slate base color, is diluted Black.
3) I started this thread for Self-Blue Cochins, which do not exist in any quality in the U.S. to provide updates as far as my progress in improving the type and color. Others have participated in the thread, and used the "L" word.
4) I can't tell you what you will get from your possible Splash Orpington Hen bred to a Black for sure, but if she is indeed a Splash, then bred to a Black you should get 100% Blues. Not Self-Blues, but regular Blues. These will be of varying shade because of the dilution of Black, introduced with the Splash. Blue and Self-Blue have totally different color descriptions per the Standard of Perfection. If you don't have a Standard, I'd recommend purchasing one. It's 100% required if you are interesting in breeding any variety to the Standard.
5) For your proposed Self-Blue Orpington X Self-Blue Orpington breeding. As long as they are indeed Self-Blues, then you will get 100% Self-Blues.
(6) Self-Blue bred to Black = 100% Black offspring, but they are splits. So Self-Blue split to Black. You could take these back to each other in the f2, in which case you'd get 25% Self-Blues, or back to Self-Blues, in which case you'd get 50% Self-Blues in the f2 generation.

Then the way I understand you is that there is no "lavender" just "self blues" and my "lavender orps and lav Ameraucanas are really "self blues" calling themselves "lavenders". I was under the impression that "lavender" was a new thing, but apparently I'm wrong. As for the ABA and APA I'm not all that concerned with Cochins since it's much to wet here for me to deal with them. I was just concerned with the color description.

I did see mentioned the genetics and all that. The ALBC has a nice description of what constitutes an animal being what it is called. I haven't a copy on hand but you can look it up. Short version the way I understand it. If two animals of a breed produce offspring that also are to the breed and so on and so on then it can be assumed that the genetic material is there to produce the breed. To standard of course.

I do wish you the best in your breeding and all that, but like I said I was just concerned about the confusion between "blue" and "lavender". I'm really interested and working with Delawares and Lord have mercy that is a different kettle of fish altogether.

Rancher

 

[cochinman2005]

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Depends on who you ask as to whether there is just Self-Blues. The Silkie Club submitted "L" Silkies for recognition as an accepted variety within that breed, although I believe the color description refers to the Self-Blue explanation in the Standard. Not 100% sure on that last statement. I will admit that the genes for the color are Lav, but the color was recognized as Self-Blue since it produces itself when bred together, so my line of thinking is that there is already a perfectly good color description available under the variety description for Self-Blue so why confuse the issue by adding "L" as another variety, which point to the Self-Blue description. I believe the Orps folks want Self-Blue Orps recognized as "L", but again, not sure about that statement.

 

[Coopa Cabana]

If I'm raising [Self-Blue/Lavender] Silkies, I will refer to them as Lavenders, because that's what the Breed club has elected to go with.

If I'm raising [Self-Blue/Lavender] Cochins, I will refer to them as Self-Blue, because that's what the Breed club has elected to go with.

I apologize for my poor chocie of words and the confustion I have caused. I probably should have said it's just best to use whichever term your respective breed club uses or prefers.

~Gail