Seramas Dying After Pip

[JJSS89]

Good Day Folks,
Nothing urgent here, just looking for some insights. I've done 5 batches of my own Serama hens' eggs this spring with the same poor results. I'd prefer to let them brood them but they aren't going broody. I hatch hundreds of eggs every year and am usually able to get 90% hatch rates with my stock.

Each time, the Serama chicks pip externally and are good and noisy the night before the hatch day but only about 25-40% of those pipped eggs are hatching out. Eggtopsy reveals healthy looking chicks, soft membranes and a correctly positioned pip. No feet malformations, no excess fluid. Yolk is fully absorbed, no bleeding from a vein-pip.

Without sounding too arrogant please do not ask a bunch of questions about temp and humidity unless you have some cold hard facts or experience that would dictate I am doing it wrong. Temp is solid, no question. Humidity is correct and is exactly what I use for other mini-bantams with great results.

I am currently assuming that these guys are weak-stock unless anyone has any ideas.

 

[AmyLynn2374]

Good Day Folks,
Nothing urgent here, just looking for some insights. I've done 5 batches of my own Serama hens' eggs this spring with the same poor results. I'd prefer to let them brood them but they aren't going broody. I hatch hundreds of eggs every year and am usually able to get 90% hatch rates with my stock.

Each time, the Serama chicks pip externally and are good and noisy the night before the hatch day but only about 25-40% of those pipped eggs are hatching out. Eggtopsy reveals healthy looking chicks, soft membranes and a correctly positioned pip. No feet malformations, no excess fluid. Yolk is fully absorbed, no bleeding from a vein-pip.

Without sounding too arrogant please do not ask a bunch of questions about temp and humidity unless you have some cold hard facts or experience that would dictate I am doing it wrong. Temp is solid, no question. Humidity is correct and is exactly what I use for other mini-bantams with great results.

I am currently assuming that these guys are weak-stock unless anyone has any ideas.

Keep in mind that the seramas (having originated from Japanese Bantam crosses) do carry the creeper gene (fatal gene for leg shortness) and if it inherites two copies (one from each parent) it will produce chicks that die in the shell. It is my understanding that the Seramas have a "diluted" version of the gene, but that it is still able to produce the same results (but to a less percent- in Japanese Bantams it is 25%). You are reflecting a much higher percentage than what you would expect to see from this alone, so I would surmise that there may be something else going on as well. I have heard different theories about seramas needing different humidity levels than the standards, but I have only heard that in theory. It would make sense though if the shell thickness/porosity was extremely different as a commonality to the breed. I don't know.
During your arrogant rant you stated that your humidity was correct and exactly what you use for other mini-bantams with great results. I would have to hypothesize that since these are not "those" breeds and are different and since you are not having the "same results" that maybe you can not follow the same methods expecting the same results.

 

[RubyNala97]

Forgive me if this sounds off the wall crazy, you said that you get external pips but then they die, based on your results, would it be crazy to assist the hatch? Maybe offering assistance will show if the chicks inside are truly healthy, if they make it...?

 

[JJSS89]

Keep in mind that the seramas (having originated from Japanese Bantam crosses) do carry the creeper gene (fatal gene for leg shortness) and if it inherites two copies (one from each parent) it will produce chicks that die in the shell. It is my understanding that the Seramas have a "diluted" version of the gene, but that it is still able to produce the same results (but to a less percent- in Japanese Bantams it is 25%). You are reflecting a much higher percentage than what you would expect to see from this alone, so I would surmise that there may be something else going on as well. I have heard different theories about seramas needing different humidity levels than the standards, but I have only heard that in theory. It would make sense though if the shell thickness/porosity was extremely different as a commonality to the breed. I don't know.
During your arrogant rant you stated that your humidity was correct and exactly what you use for other mini-bantams with great results. I would have to hypothesize that since these are not "those" breeds and are different and since you are not having the "same results" that maybe you can not follow the same methods expecting the same results.

Thanks Amy. I was hoping for this kind of info concerning the fatalities that are inherent to the breed. The tough part on the humidity is that some of the hens lay very porous eggs and others lay a nice thick shell but there isn't a difference in hatch numbers. Would you care to share those different theories---that is what I was asking for in my original post.

Ouch BTW. What I was trying to convey is that I have my temp and humidity under control unless somebody had evidence to the contrary where Seramas are specifically concerned. Not that I am perfect and know it all.

 

[JJSS89]

Forgive me if this sounds off the wall crazy, you said that you get external pips but then they die, based on your results, would it be crazy to assist the hatch? Maybe offering assistance will show if the chicks inside are truly healthy, if they make it...?

Doesn't sound crazy. I had two that pipped wrong side and I waited 24 hours and then assisted. They lived. The rest typically pip and then die before they are ready. Meaning they still have blood in their membrane and would die it I popped them out.

 

[JJSS89]

Anybody else have any Serama specific advice that they used to counteract similar results?