Serious about Chanteclers...

[Ted Brown]

@Folly's place

Mary, please keep us posted with your Spring experiences. Hatch rate is of particular interest as are any comments you have of "standard" traits and deviations thereto.

Rejean (my source) mentioned the greying, although he used silvering, hue. A few of my cockerels had a yellowish tone around the neck but at times it appears to have diminished (disappeared?) as they mature. I also have one (the largest) that my sister feels has a neck that is too long; I wonder if that might balance out as he fills out.

Best of luck!

 

[Eelantha]

@Folly's place - Genetic diversity in Chanteclers is somewhat low since it's a heritage breed struggling to recover from its endangered state. That might explain why their breeders have issues with fertility, with so few lineages left that keep up to standard. Have you ever thought about outcrossing with White Wyandotes every few generations to get some new blood in there? (Female White Wyandotes were highly used to create the Chantecler's final body shape, so the only thing to cull for would be big wattles and combs, I think.)

I've often thought about holding a breeding pen of White Wyandotes to help boost genetic diversity in Chantecler stock. These Wyandottes wouldn't be APA standard as I would select them primarily for similar body shapes to Chanteclers and favor those with the smallest combs/wattles, but just the fact of adding new blood could perhaps do wonders for the fertility of the Chanties. I've not seen a single Chanty breeder try this, though, so I'm not sure if it's something worth trying out if I ever become capable of starting a serious breeding program for chickens.

@Ted Brown - It looks like we are at the same level then, I too am researching chicken breeding, though for a different reason - that of seeing if it's possible to have a closed, genetically diversified, sustainable flock I could keep thriving for as long as I live. There is a law in my area that forbids anyone from having more than 99 laying hens at all times, so I would need to be especially careful never to go past that number. I have a small family and we moderately eat eggs, so obviously the number of chickens wouldn't be that high, but I still want to figure out the minimum number of chickens and breeding pens I'd need to keep the flock running for decades; I like the thought of helping preserve endangered heritage chicken breeds, even if I only have 20-30 specimens to do so.

Anything concerning the Chantecler is welcome, especially breeding tips and advice. Do you remember how many breeding pens Rejean had for his Chanteclers? Almost every Chantecler breeder I know go to showing, so I wouldn't be surprised if he did, too.

Fertilized eggs can stay viable for up to 12-14 days, and some people even said they had successful hatches with eggs that had spent several weeks in the fridge. In my humble opinion, I do not think the delay you encountered with your incubator is what influenced the hatch number. The surrounding room temperature and inexperience with incubation itself, plus the 60% hatch rate from the breeder and the pullet hatching eggs are most likely the culprits. Fear not though, those issues can all be fixed

Perhaps a few blood tests would help determine who is from what family? Or feather tests, if the labs can get DNA from them without resorting to blood tests. Are those affordable in your area?

I will gladly take Rejean's contact if you're willing to PM me. I do not think I know of him yet.

Thank you for answering all my questions, I will come to you if I have any more!

 

[Ted Brown]

@Eelantha

Rejean has six breeding pens. These are in a row among a number of other pen rows that house heritage turkeys which I believe is his primary focus; I did not ask him any questions about his turkeys. There is also a outside line of pens (less than 10) which he use to keep turkeys. These are open pens but are covered with roofs.

Rejean's "inside" breeding pens are under a very large lean-to roof that runs off the south side of his barn complex; open to the south year round. I was in this area and also inside a small section of the barns which house his incubators, brooders and wall of cages. I would guess that this section is less than 10% of his barn space.

I forgot to tell you that I live in Quebec, north west of Ottawa about 80 kilometers; near (20km) the Ottawa River.

 

[Eelantha]

@Ted Brown - six breeding pens... amazing. Your description of his barn settings sound a bit like the wood-style coop at some point. Is he using a variant of that?

Hey there neighbor, I live smack in Quebec City, a few driving hours away from you ^^

 

[Ted Brown]

@Ted Brown - six breeding pens... amazing. Your description of his barn settings sound a bit like the wood-style coop at some point. Is he using a variant of that?

Hey there neighbor, I live smack in Quebec City, a few driving hours away from you ^^

I am guessing that the six breeding pens arise from the six families that he maintains but suspect he varies in usage. He is a very serious dude!

I don't know what inspired his build but clearly he adheres to the fresh air and southern facing principals. His dimensions do not conform to Woods KD style but then nor do the other designs in his book (eg Colony houses). IMHO Woods' key principals are Fresh Air and Southern facing but do not deny that the ratio's that folks use for their KD variants is important.

 

[Eelantha]

I am guessing that the six breeding pens arise from the six families that he maintains but suspect he varies in usage. He is a very serious dude!

I don't know what inspired his build but clearly he adheres to the fresh air and southern facing principals. His dimensions do not conform to Woods KD style but then nor do the other designs in his book (eg Colony houses). IMHO Woods' key principals are Fresh Air and Southern facing but do not deny that the ratio's that folks use for their KD variants is important.

The only mating technique I can think of that demands this many breeding pens is the Clan Mating one (check Harvey Ussey on the web for more information). That he has managed to keep up the diversity and standard of his flocks with this is very impressive. He is indeed a very serious breeder!

Honestly I'm not surprised he adheres to fresh air and southern facing principals. Proper ventilation aside, if he keeps his birds in such a setting year-round, then his Chanteclers are guaranteed to live up to their reputed high tolerance of Quebecan and Canadian winters. I will definitely keep his contact on my top 10 Chantecler breeders to call first when I will be ready try this chicken. Thank you very much for referring him!

Do you have any references for wood-style coop books? One that's preferably easy to read and understand?

 

[Ted Brown]

Here is the Prince T. Woods Modern Fresh Air Poultry House book courtesy of @jthornton.

Overall the book is an easy read until one decides to use it to actually build one. However if you have building experience it can be followed.

The issues are that the build instructions do not use modern stick framing techniques and the measurements are mixed between the diagrams and the text.

BUT the technique described is much simpler and less expensive that using stick frames (eg studs and top/bottom plates). It is also much easier to dismantle if one ever wants to do that as it is made from panels that are pre-built and then assembled. If interested look at "My Coop", it is a quick pictorial with my build thread linked.

If you have access to rough cut pine lumber you will save a considerable amount of money over big box lumber especially given the massively COVID inflated costs these days. I spent ~$1,000 for a 10' by 16' KD style coop.

If you have any questions feel free to send me an email I would be happy to discuss at whatever length you wish.

 

[Eelantha]

Thank you! I'll try and find some time to read it!

Oops, that might be a challenge for me. I'm an amateur builder, I have no 'formal' notion or school training of how to build things. I do it by eye mostly, through I do know how to use a measuring tape xD

The price for lumber has become ridiculous here. Right now I can't build anything, but if I want to make a small coop I'll definitely turn to scrap pallet lumber before looking up rough cut lumber. Yes, wood is that pricey in my area.

Thank you! I'll keep that in mind!

 

[Folly's place]

Years ago we bought green rough cut oak boards from a couple of small local saw mills; Not dried, but useful for fencing. If you could find a local source, and store it until spring, that might work for you.
Mary

 

[Ted Brown]

I am in a rural setting, do a fair amount of handyman projects (docks, decks, repairs, etc) and most often buy green rough cut lumber (pine, hemlock, cedar). I have a number of local sources and while the prices are up since COVID one can usually buy for between $1-$2 /board foot (1" by 12" by 12") in standard lengths.

Do not underestimate what common sense, perseverance and a basic few tools can accomplish!

Check out kijiji, I would be shocked if there are not a number of sources within 50-100km of you.