Sevin dust

[wyododge]

Quote:
Well to be completely fair ( or at least make a modest attempt) the term NATURAL is equally irritating to me. Plutonium is natural, so is asphalt. Short of needing to hot mop my roof I am fairly sure I am not going to use it on my chickens cause it is natural.

As for Sevin, I choose not to, but my mother has for years and years. She is one of those biology, chemical superfreaks and has assured me it is safe. My reasons are more personal for not using it and a matter of hypocrisy. I have not take drugs (actually will not) of the synthetic type for years due to health reasons. I simply find it hypocritical to give the animals under my care synthetic drug when I will not take them my self. I have heard many good things about the results with Sevin though.

FWIW, just good debate, no harm no foul. I try not to interpret emotion or hard feelings from written text. Good people around here who just want to help, and I give all the benefit of the doubt. Or at least I try too...

 

[al6517]

Mainly I think the flip flop from the 7 dust manufactures was born purely from a liability standpoint, and a good point was made that yes even medicines nowaday's seem to have more sideffects than benifits as stated in their commercials. On the 7 dust issue all I am saying is I have used it once a year for many many years and I do know the possible hazards, but after all those years not one issue has arisen from it's use, and it's just an experience thing. I keep a 50lb bag of DE and I use DE in my pens once a month year round as a prevenitive along with a yearly bath and dip of .105 permethrin. I Keep and raise SQ Rare white LF Cornish worth more $$ than any 100 peoples flocks put together, so I am never going to harm my birds with something I am not comfortable using.

 

[wyododge]

Quote:
The first two statements, followed by the third statement of philosophy is all I would need. Sounds like sound judgement, and most importantly rational reasoning. Personally I would believe anyone who has 'real' world experience before I trusted someones 'label', either pro or con. There is simply no substitute for real people using products outside of laboratories on livestock that they have a large personal and financial stake in preserving.

I am fervently against the use of such things, but you point out the possibility of irrational thought on my part.




dang...

 

[foxypoproxy]

Quote:
The first two statements, followed by the third statement of philosophy is all I would need. Sounds like sound judgement, and most importantly rational reasoning. Personally I would believe anyone who has 'real' world experience before I trusted someones 'label', either pro or con. There is simply no substitute for real people using products outside of laboratories on livestock that they have a large personal and financial stake in preserving.

I am fervently against the use of such things, but you point out the possibility of irrational thought on my part.




dang...

But we don't know. Just because people on this thread haven't had an issue, or even on this forum for that matter does not mean there has been 0% side effects or deaths due to 7 Dust.
Thats basically saying that because nothing has happened yet, to assume its alright.

Which is kind of silly because if you think of it in another light, for example my father doesn't belive in quarintine.
He would just throw new chickens in with his old chickens as soon as he got them without even thinking.
And because they never got sick or had an issue he assumes its ok.
Well i could say hes just gotten by with luck so far. Because its a fact that it "can" be harmful to the birds.
Maybe not all the time but it can.
He would also overcrowd their coop and because they never fought or picked each other he also thought its ok.

But you know what, eventually one day, luck runs out.


Its also like saying "i run red lights all the time and have never got hit or caught!"
Until the one day it does happen and its too late.

Truth is yes you could say "Mainly I think the flip flop from the 7 dust manufactures was born purely from a liability standpoint" but we don't really know.
If something says its not safe for animals, that's like ignoring the dosage on the medicine you take because it hasn't hurt and assuming it can't and won't
If you advise someone else that same dosage you take, what if it killed them?
Its better to be safe then sorry and not to assume that because it hasn't hurt anyone yet, that it doesn't have the possibility of doing so.
Even if there is only a 1% chance of it hurting my pets, i would like to know about it and i won't take that chance.

Cigarette's are another perfect example of a product people have used for years and had no problems with!
They use to advertise them everywhere and it was a very normal and ok thing for people to use.
And it wasn't till waaaay later that they realized that it could cause things such as lung cancer.
Not everyone will get lung cancer or have issues, but they still need to put the warning on there because it "can" happen.
With that warning now people can weigh the pros and the cons and have a choice.

Btw i am not trying to fight, just speaking my point a view.

 

[wyododge]

No fight at all, this is actually turning out to be a VERY good thread. Lots of RESPECTFUL debate and opinions. And you make very good points.

I too will probably never use Sevin dust, but I believe there is a strong possibility of irrational thought on my part. As for risk, we have to put up with a significantly high risk raising chickens where we do, which is one of the reasons I absolutely DEMAND that my flock survives with as little intervention as possible. Of course we feed, water, shelter and handle them, but little else. My greatest fear is the reduction of the immune system by 'annual' treatments, which is why I don't use it.

 

[al6517]

Quote:
The first two statements, followed by the third statement of philosophy is all I would need. Sounds like sound judgement, and most importantly rational reasoning. Personally I would believe anyone who has 'real' world experience before I trusted someones 'label', either pro or con. There is simply no substitute for real people using products outside of laboratories on livestock that they have a large personal and financial stake in preserving.

I am fervently against the use of such things, but you point out the possibility of irrational thought on my part.




dang...

But we don't know. Just because people on this thread haven't had an issue, or even on this forum for that matter does not mean there has been 0% side effects or deaths due to 7 Dust.
Thats basically saying that because nothing has happened yet, to assume its alright.

Which is kind of silly because if you think of it in another light, for example my father doesn't belive in quarintine.
He would just throw new chickens in with his old chickens as soon as he got them without even thinking.
And because they never got sick or had an issue he assumes its ok.
Well i could say hes just gotten by with luck so far. Because its a fact that it "can" be harmful to the birds.
Maybe not all the time but it can.
He would also overcrowd their coop and because they never fought or picked each other he also thought its ok.

But you know what, eventually one day, luck runs out.


Its also like saying "i run red lights all the time and have never got hit or caught!"
Until the one day it does happen and its too late.

Truth is yes you could say "Mainly I think the flip flop from the 7 dust manufactures was born purely from a liability standpoint" but we don't really know.
If something says its not safe for animals, that's like ignoring the dosage on the medicine you take because it hasn't hurt and assuming it can't and won't
If you advise someone else that same dosage you take, what if it killed them?
Its better to be safe then sorry and not to assume that because it hasn't hurt anyone yet, that it doesn't have the possibility of doing so.
Even if there is only a 1% chance of it hurting my pets, i would like to know about it and i won't take that chance.

Cigarette's are another perfect example of a product people have used for years and had no problems with!
They use to advertise them everywhere and it was a very normal and ok thing for people to use.
And it wasn't till waaaay later that they realized that it could cause things such as lung cancer.
Not everyone will get lung cancer or have issues, but they still need to put the warning on there because it "can" happen.
With that warning now people can weigh the pros and the cons and have a choice.

Btw i am not trying to fight, just speaking my point a view.

No prob's I do see your point and some of it is valid, we all Have to make choices based on what we think is the best info we can get, and go from there.

 

[foxypoproxy]

Quote:
But we don't know. Just because people on this thread haven't had an issue, or even on this forum for that matter does not mean there has been 0% side effects or deaths due to 7 Dust.
Thats basically saying that because nothing has happened yet, to assume its alright.

Which is kind of silly because if you think of it in another light, for example my father doesn't belive in quarintine.
He would just throw new chickens in with his old chickens as soon as he got them without even thinking.
And because they never got sick or had an issue he assumes its ok.
Well i could say hes just gotten by with luck so far. Because its a fact that it "can" be harmful to the birds.
Maybe not all the time but it can.
He would also overcrowd their coop and because they never fought or picked each other he also thought its ok.

But you know what, eventually one day, luck runs out.


Its also like saying "i run red lights all the time and have never got hit or caught!"
Until the one day it does happen and its too late.

Truth is yes you could say "Mainly I think the flip flop from the 7 dust manufactures was born purely from a liability standpoint" but we don't really know.
If something says its not safe for animals, that's like ignoring the dosage on the medicine you take because it hasn't hurt and assuming it can't and won't
If you advise someone else that same dosage you take, what if it killed them?
Its better to be safe then sorry and not to assume that because it hasn't hurt anyone yet, that it doesn't have the possibility of doing so.
Even if there is only a 1% chance of it hurting my pets, i would like to know about it and i won't take that chance.

Cigarette's are another perfect example of a product people have used for years and had no problems with!
They use to advertise them everywhere and it was a very normal and ok thing for people to use.
And it wasn't till waaaay later that they realized that it could cause things such as lung cancer.
Not everyone will get lung cancer or have issues, but they still need to put the warning on there because it "can" happen.
With that warning now people can weigh the pros and the cons and have a choice.

Btw i am not trying to fight, just speaking my point a view.

No prob's I do see your point and some of it is valid, we all Have to make choices based on what we think is the best info we can get, and go from there.

Yup, thank you for seeing my point of view.
I understand yours too.

We all just have to make are own choices based on the information that is given :].

 

[simplynewt]

Like DLM or Sand...whose to say.

 

[al6517]

I am trying to make some better pest control decision in my veggie garden, but have become very wary of what I am coming up with for solutions. I wish more of what I read is fact based on experience vs printed internet drivel on some natural way's to keep some pest away. I have on occasions used some remedies from an old book that had natural remedies in it from common household things you could buy in the store, this was well before the time of pestisides. Some of them worked quite well others not so much, I liked them because they were fact based on experience from a time long gone when only Gramma & Grampa knew best LOL.

 

[al6517]

Quote:
Well one thing is for certain DTD did decimate the American bald eagle population and since the gov't has outlawed it, they have come back with great success. Just sayin