Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

No I don't really care about the imported eggs. I would rather have Henry's and Fret's chicks.
It's a shame about them, but weren't they just backup anyway, in case Henry's weren't fertile given his age?
Fret marched the chicks to my plot. They are two days old!
Love it! That's when my broodies bring out their chicks for foraging 101. Fret has the same instincts, whatever her background was.
Fret made the run for cover call and the chicks ran for the nettles
What a fab shot! I've never been lucky enough to catch that movement.
She settled in the corner the chicks got underneath and I didn't hear another peep out of them, completely knackered I would assume.
Again that's typical here. They'll probably sleep in a while in the morning too for the first couple of days.
I'm so pleased for you all. :love
 
@Perris I read a post (FB) where someone suggested that the makeup of the commercial layer feed is designed to "force" hens into laying more than they would naturally. Could this be the case and if it is, wouldn't that lead to more reproductive issues?

The poster was looking for a more natural way to provide healthy food for their chickens, I directed them to your article. We started following your recommendations a couple of months ago, and I believe that the better balanced nutrition, along with the shade cloth, fan, etc..., has helped them deal with the heat. It has been hotter than normal and they are all doing great, with no issues.
 
Very interesting to read all that has been going on.
Just curious about the notion of a staggered hatch which appears to be problematic. Would that not be always the case in nature ? If a hen lays seven eggs, then sets, there would be 7 days difference between the first and the last?

In a way, I think it will make things easier that Fret has only those two : less chicks to watch over and care for, looking similar, the same age. The only downside would be if there are two males and as you say, we have to follow nature.

It's very endearing that she has this instinct to take them out so soon when she herself has lived a big part of her life in a sort of chicken jail. Did I understand right that you let those two day chicks under the rain ? Scottish people 🤣.
 
@Perris, I read this and a few more of the articles linked in it. This passage got my attention:

"After the second and especially third generation, inbreeding can become a problem. Many breeders decide to switch out their roosters on an annual basis to prevent a rooster from breeding his daughters. You can slaughter your rooster, trade him with another breeder or simply keep him separated from the hens that are related to him. If you choose to sell your fertilized eggs or chicks rather than keeping later generations, you don’t have to worry about changing your rooster."

What are your thoughts on this? As one with multiple roos and free ranging chickens? I recall @Shadrach saying something about roosters mating with their daughters ... But don't recall specifically what it was or if there were ill effects.

I'd really like to know more. Is "second generation" the rooster father's daughter or granddaughter? I know @Molpet is experienced at separating different members of a group out for breeding... If anyone else would care to contribute insights based on experience, I'm taking notes! 🧐
I've read different views on this; first observation is that they nearly all seem to be coming from a 'breeding to the SOP' (standard of perfection for a given breed) perspective, even the >100 year old handbooks; in any case the keeper chooses which birds are going to be allowed to breed.

Second observation is that the number of birds being worked with makes a difference: serious breeders are selecting a handful of birds to breed from out of cohorts of literally hundreds of siblings that were themselves the result of the previous years' decisions about who to mate with whom, and they will be keeping separate strains or clans in separate pens to boot (I think that's called spiral breeding, on which see e.g. https://www.motherearthnews.com/homesteading-and-livestock/how-to-breed-chickens-zmbz16amzkon/ ). Although they're both a sort of inbreeding, that's completely different from breeding one roo and 3 hens in a backyard pen.

Third observation is that the quality and variety of the foundation stock genetics makes a difference. One of the problems with rare and heritage breeds that I've encountered is the absolutely small gene pool. If the numbers get really small, it's quite hard to find unrelated birds, and if there's a congenital problem, they've likely all got it. It can be a similar situation if someone starts with birds of the same breed from the same source, as many of us do when we get into chicken-keeping; they're probably already closely related, especially if that source was another backyard keeper with a small flock of X, and not a professional breeder running multiple strains.

For myself, I have come to trust my flock's instincts, in breeding as in brooding and feeding. They mate as they wish. I still have and exercise control over which and how many hens' eggs to set when there's a broody (at least until one of them manages to hide a nest and disappear, only to return with chicks in tow, which may happen one day), and then spend many happy hours trying to work out, as they develop and feather out, each chick's parentage. Sometimes I revise the putative lines so many times I'm not sure why I bother :rolleyes: :th That they are healthy is all that really matters here. :p
 
@Perris I read a post (FB) where someone suggested that the makeup of the commercial layer feed is designed to "force" hens into laying more than they would naturally. Could this be the case and if it is, wouldn't that lead to more reproductive issues?

The poster was looking for a more natural way to provide healthy food for their chickens, I directed them to your article. We started following your recommendations a couple of months ago, and I believe that the better balanced nutrition, along with the shade cloth, fan, etc..., has helped them deal with the heat. It has been hotter than normal and they are all doing great, with no issues.
it is designed to be addictive, like human junk food, so they eat more than they otherwise would. There's a reason people assume there's something wrong with the feed when their birds get non-communicable diseases and issues, and I haven't yet worked out how the feed industry has managed to distract attention from their product, which forms the bulk if not the entirety of the feed in many such cases, to any putative 'treats' the poor birds might also have been given by their loving owners.
 
I've read different views on this; first observation is that they nearly all seem to be coming from a 'breeding to the SOP' (standard of perfection for a given breed) perspective, even the >100 year old handbooks; in any case the keeper chooses which birds are going to be allowed to breed.

Second observation is that the number of birds being worked with makes a difference: serious breeders are selecting a handful of birds to breed from out of cohorts of literally hundreds of siblings that were themselves the result of the previous years' decisions about who to mate with whom, and they will be keeping separate strains or clans in separate pens to boot (I think that's called spiral breeding, on which see e.g. https://www.motherearthnews.com/homesteading-and-livestock/how-to-breed-chickens-zmbz16amzkon/ ). Although they're both a sort of inbreeding, that's completely different from breeding one roo and 3 hens in a backyard pen.

Third observation is that the quality and variety of the foundation stock genetics makes a difference. One of the problems with rare and heritage breeds that I've encountered is the absolutely small gene pool. If the numbers get really small, it's quite hard to find unrelated birds, and if there's a congenital problem, they've likely all got it. It can be a similar situation if someone starts with birds of the same breed from the same source, as many of us do when we get into chicken-keeping; they're probably already closely related, especially if that source was another backyard keeper with a small flock of X, and not a professional breeder running multiple strains.

For myself, I have come to trust my flock's instincts, in breeding as in brooding and feeding. They mate as they wish. I still have and exercise control over which and how many hens' eggs to set when there's a broody (at least until one of them manages to hide a nest and disappear, only to return with chicks in tow, which may happen one day), and then spend many happy hours trying to work out, as they develop and feather out, each chick's parentage. Sometimes I revise the putative lines so many times I'm not sure why I bother :rolleyes: :th That they are healthy is all that really matters here. :p
Very interesting. But please explain then why did you chose to get heritage rare breeds to begin with, then, considering your goals are for health and you say there was a risk of a small genetic pool leading to health problems, rather than backyard mutts ? Do you believe they are more hardy ?
 
Very interesting. But please explain then why did you chose to get heritage rare breeds to begin with, then, considering your goals are for health and you say there was a risk of a small genetic pool leading to health problems, rather than backyard mutts ? Do you believe they are more hardy ?
I went for breeds that like/need free range not confinement, and are predator aware, because that's how I intended to keep them, and though I did a lot of research before I started, I didn't appreciate the small gene pool issue till much later.

My experience with the Braekels last year (only 1 of 4 fertile and hatched, but it didn't make it to adulthood - the only chick of 12 to fall by the wayside last year) sort of confirmed it and has resolved me not to get any more hatching eggs of really rare varieties no matter how attractive or worthy they might be (like the North Holland Blue).
 

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