Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

[TheFatBlueCat]

Yay for Fret! And the flock, you @Shadrach and the entire allotment .

In regards to inbreeding, I don't worry much about it, because I have almost entirely mixed breeds. The parents all started as 'purebreeds' (which means an entirely different thing in poultry than it does with mammals, as I learned).

I have one hen (Droplet) who is the daughter of my rooster (Kowalski). She has a daughter (Red Hen), so Red Hen is the granddaughter of Kowalski, but Red Hen has a different father (Wendell). They are all different breeds. I figure that fact alone makes the genetic diversity so much more diverse than two 'unrelated' individuals of the same breed that I don't have any concerns about it.
The cockerels I will be allowing to stay (for now) are Kowalski's sons. They are related only to their genetic mother (Princess Fluffy Butt), their half sibling Droplet, and their niece Red Hen. Again, all started as different breeds, the cockerels being a mix of barred rock and orpington.
I think if you have varied breeds, and breed mixes, inbreeding is even less of a concern. I bring in 'new blood' by buying hatching eggs. Last season I got lucky by having every chick sired by Wendell (very obvious as all of Kowalski's chicks are barred, and all of Wendell's chicks were partridge, black or white). I'm not entirely sure what that says about Kowalski's motivation... or his future as flock father! I fully expect all of the later seasons chicks to be fathered by the cockerels, if they ever get a move on in that department.

 

[fluffycrow]

I need some advice. The Tsouloufati flock free ranges all day. That means that Big Reds flock gets few hours, if any to free range. I've been thinking more and more often if it's a good idea to let both groups free range at the same time. Right now everything is pretty much idyllic, so I don't want to greatly disturb everyone, truth be told. Another worry of mine is that Big Red is a gamefowl, and as such might not back down at all, and make a simple fight, a fight to the death

 

[Perris]

I think if you have varied breeds, and breed mixes, inbreeding is even less of a concern. I bring in 'new blood' by buying hatching eggs.

This is my thinking too.

My foundation stock are Swedish Flowers, which don't have a standard anyway and evolved on Swedish farms to look and behave as they do. A 6 yr old Swedish Flower (Venka) is mother to 3 pure SFH hens and 1 pure roo (Chirk being the daddy; he is also her son by Sven, which explains why the pullets are so like her - 75% of their genes came from her). The other prominent breed here are Penedesencas, bought in as hatching eggs.

The current dom (Killay) has no Swedish Flower blood at all; his mum was an Araucana (Maria) and his dad a Penedesenca who's since passed (Phoenix). Phoenix didn't live long, but he was a busy and popular chap , as he has 5 offspring in the current flock, including 2 daughters by that same Swedish Flower hen who produced the 4 young SFHs. There is one certain cross the other way, of a SFH cock (Chirk) over a Penedesenca hen (Polka), and that is Fez. It was hybrid hens' eggs that went into Janeka's clutch, with 1 of her own, so Phoenix's influence continues (probably) in an additional 3 grandkids now, and I'm guessing that the daddy to 3 if not all 4 of their newly hatched kids is the hybrid dom.

The other breeds here have been bit players in the reproduction stakes; Norfolk Grey, Welsummer, Barbezieux, Araucana have just 1 or no surviving offspring.

The upshot is that, after 6 years of existence for this flock, I think that all of the year olds are now related to one another as full, half or quarter siblings or cousins once or twice removed. That the inputs were very different 'breeds' (technically all chickens are the same breed, we're just dealing with standardised minor variations) I think and hope will continue to avoid genetic depression. It would also be nice if they don't all end up looking like a wall of brown .

 

[Perris]

I need some advice. The Tsouloufati flock free ranges all day. That means that Big Reds flock gets few hours, if any to free range. I've been thinking more and more often if it's a good idea to let both groups free range at the same time. Right now everything is pretty much idyllic, so I don't want to greatly disturb everyone, truth be told. Another worry of mine is that Big Red is a gamefowl, and as such might not back down at all, and make a simple fight, a fight to the death

I imagine a lot depends on how much space there is for them to use. I've not kept game birds so can't help there.

 

[fluffycrow]

I imagine a lot depends on how much space there is for them to use. I've not kept game birds so can't help there.

They have an acre to roam. Which I know isn't the greatest of spaces for two groups. The main issue is that if either male decides to heavily guard his territory, the other group/tribe will not be able to get to their respective coops

 

[BDutch]

Sometimes, fight nature can just prolong suffering. The people who are so callus to not care are typically the same ones who would let an animal suffer so that they are not inconvenienced, ie getting up early to make sure they are fed and cleaned, staying up all night to comfort an ill or dying animal, or let strangers raise their children, because they just can't be bothered to parent. They always claim to "care" and tend to have extreme reactions, but in reality it is fake emotion (virtue signaling), in an attempt to try to make themselves "feel" better.

I don’t understand what you are trying to say. And its probably not because I’m not an English speaker. (AI, and google are getting better in translating by the minute).

I agree that it’s wrong to let people and animals suffer any longer than it would in a natural situation. And if we make a ‘world’ that isn’t natural we should try harder to avoid suffering.

I’m also aware that many people don’t mind to let people and animals suffer. It’s happening all the time, all around the world and in often this has nothing to do with natural circumstances.

It’s also true that people are hiding the wrongs they do behind arguments (believe, excuses, other people they like to believe).

But I still don’t grasp what you try yo tell? What is the meaning of your statement?

 

[BDutch]

@Perris I read a post (FB) where someone suggested that the makeup of the commercial layer feed is designed to "force" hens into laying more than they would naturally. Could this be the case and if it is, wouldn't that lead to more reproductive issues?

The poster was looking for a more natural way to provide healthy food for their chickens, I directed them to your article. We started following your recommendations a couple of months ago, and I believe that the better balanced nutrition, along with the shade cloth, fan, etc..., has helped them deal with the heat. It has been hotter than normal and they are all doing great, with no issues.

You ask Perris, and I do hope he knows or finds info to give you a good answer.

I want to reply on this matter too. I know (researched in NL) that our abundant milk giving cows are genetically changed so much, that the need the high protein feed to stay healthy. Maybe the research was not independent. If I recall right a farmers organisation paid for the research because the government wanted to change the feed in order to reduce air pollution.

With chickens its probably about the same. The laying hybrids are not natural anymore. Therefore they probably need the high levels of protein and calcium in their feed. For me another reason to ‘not want’ to have laying hybrids.
The heritage breeds and barnyard/back yard mixes don’t need the amount of proteins and calcium that’s in the commercial feed made for factory farming. The not commercial chickens are probably more fit for free ranging and living on scratch and left overs than the laying hybrids.

 

[Perris]

Re: the super quick feathering of one of Janeka's clutch.

I've looked in on the nest a couple of times now when they've gone to roost, and everyone's under her every time, so I don't think it can be a response to differential environment. We're on 12 days now; Towey has got nearest to catching up, but is still distinctly behind the development Idris showed at 7 days. Idris may have hatched a day earlier than the rest but did not hatch 5 days+ ahead of them, so I think this has to be a fast feathering gene (or set of genes). Skomer meanwhile looks to be growing them really slowly and is still stumpy, and Betws' feathering is somewhere in between.

Picking up on more recent conversation, it suggests that there is indeed diversity in the gene pool here, despite their relatedness!

 

[Perris]

The laying hybrids are not natural anymore. Therefore they probably need the high levels of protein and calcium in their feed.

I read this a lot but I don't believe it anymore. Shad's experience with rescues constitutes some evidence. Since the chicken genome is known in its entirety, let's see some figures from those who want to maintain they're genetically different.

 

[fluffycrow]

Re: the super quick feathering of one of Janeka's clutch.

I've looked in on the nest a couple of times now when they've gone to roost, and everyone's under her every time, so I don't think it can be a response to differential environment. We're on 12 days now; Towey has got nearest to catching up, but is still distinctly behind the development Idris showed at 7 days. Idris may have hatched a day earlier than the rest but did not hatch 5 days+ ahead of them, so I think this has to be a fast feathering gene (or set of genes). Skomer meanwhile looks to be growing them really slowly and is still stumpy, and Betws' feathering is somewhere in between.
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Picking up on more recent conversation, it suggests that there is indeed diversity in the gene pool here, despite their relatedness!

I'm so glad you brought that topic back again, because although I still think that in my case at least there is something environmental going on, I now do think that some gene could also be at play. Here is a photo of Cruella's chicks on 2 weeks and one day, I'll go get some photos of the brooder babies in a bit