Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

[HiEverybirdy]

On the feed topic...

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/26566879_Food_and_Feeding_Habits_of_Red_Junglefowl

Items that popped out to me:

- On foraging: “It was often observed that they fed in open areas early in the morning and late in the evening. During the rest of the day they fed around the oil palm trees and within the Nephrolepsis biserrata (fern) and in the stacked [sic] of the oil palm cut fronds. They were never observed feeding for a long period of time at a spot while foraging.”

- On plants vs. animals in their diets: In this and a study in India, the diet observed was 81-90% plant matter, and females eat more animal proteins than males.

“The Red Junglefowl breeds throughout the year, therefore, the hens need a lot of energy (protein, calcium) for egg production throughout the year.”

- On water intake: They appear to glean moisture from what they forage rather than seeking out water, which makes you wonder how much we complicate their lives by feeding dry cereal that forces them to consume so much water separately.

 

[Shadrach]

Agreed. I do not blame the fox that attacked my birds, it was only doing what it needed to to survive.

And it IS true, and has been through history. They ARE considered possessions, even by law. That doesn't mean we can't get attached to them. I raise mine as a source of (meagre) income as well as to feed myself. Thus I wish to protect my investments. Doesn't mean I don't care about them, or that certain ones don't become favourites.

Their lives and well-being depend on me. Same as does my cats and dog, and my own children until they were old enough to fend for themselves (and even now when they are all over 30, I *still* help them out).

Offering condolences to someone who has lost a bird (or dog, or who's car got wrecked) is natural empathy.

I agree.
It is fine to mourn the loss of a friend even if that loss is natural, expected, or even a release.

I understand why people do offer their condolences and I'm not against it in the slightest; well, sometimes it clogs the thread up I was just trying to explain my viewpoint and why I don't.
When a chicken in my care dies I tell the other chickens how sorry I am.
When Carbon died Henry was obviously upset. Carbon has been one of Henry's favourites for years and Henry has seen a lot of hens come and go.
He still has Fret and hopefully he will form a bond with Mow, Tull and Sylpth in time.
I drop into their lives for a few hours a week. The chickens live with each other and the seniors at the field have been through some terrible times together. What do I know about the loss they may feel. Nothing really .

 

[HiEverybirdy]

We, chicken keepers and I think people in general, have lost touch with the purpose of death through predation and maybe death in general. It's all fallen out of balance.
In our attempts to make life safe for the creatures we keep we often not only make matters worse but upset what should be a natural balance.
It's a complicated topic on which people, depending on their culture and their own sensibilities, often with no logic or rationality, have vastly different views.
As an example, I could not have managed attempting to keep free range chickens in Catalonia, with all my views of freedom to reproduce and freedom of movement without the aid of predators. It wouldn't have taken many hatchings before the population became completely unmanageable.
A further problem is the view that we own the lives of the creatures we keep and a threat to those lives, or the taking of those lives by others becomes a personal affront. There is nothing personal in natural predation. It's just other creatures trying to eat and survive much as we do.
Sometimes it's the view that we own lives and are responsible for them that compounds the problem. Lock creatures up in a prison for their own safety and our own peace of mind and have a predator break into that prison is often more devastating than having a predator pick off one or two free rangers.
It is a complicated topic which I try not to over simplify but predation is necessary if any sort of natural balance is to be maintained.
The above is part of the reason I don't do the sorry for your loss type posts.
The poster may in a few cases have lost a friend but mostly they've lost a possession. It's the dead creature that's lost something, their life and my empathy goes to their relatives.
Not very well expressed I'm sorry to write and not a view shared by most here.

Discussions like this are why I stick with this thread.

Speaking only for myself, owning and "being responsible for" are easy to separate.

When I mourn, it's for the loss of a friend, and even more for the surviving chickens' loss. Our chickens aren't naturally broody, and their social structure doesn't change often. They clearly feel each loss in a different way than groups more accustomed to change.

Miss Frida, rooster Stilton's lifelong crush, also passed this summer, and Stilton still waits by the gate for her some nights before roosting. The first night he ever did this was the evening she passed. Prior to this, he was always early to roost. That's just one, poignant example of ways each death is clearly remembered by our birds.

I don't disagree that our views on life and death are way out of whack. I walk in that understanding every day as I age, and I wonder how I'll survive the deaths of friends & family should I outlive them, particularly when the deaths of non-humans hit so hard. However, having suffered some of those losses already, I've always found that mourning non-humans is far easier than accessing grief over the loss of, say, a parent.

I have great respect for those on this thread with a different perspective than me, like the people who cull and eat their birds. That's simply not how my brain wraps around keeping chickens, and while I do regret that in some ways, I've found it unproductive to criticize myself for it.

In short, the conversation for me comes down to domestication, and how much I've chosen to engage in domesticating/controlling the environment of beings in my care. I think a lot about ideas echoed in what @BDutch wrote recently:

You’re actually saying that many people who live in area’s with loads of predators shouldn’t keep chickens.

I put chickens in an environment with weather and predators they haven't evolved to face. Therefore, I'm responsible for mitigating that as much as possible by providing the safest, but also healthiest, environment I can. It's a difficult line to walk.

When people say, "I'm sorry," it's also a balm for the regret and guilt I'm feeling over my failure, and I do appreciate it.

 

[Shadrach]

Part of me would like to be more like Molpet and others who farm their chickens and other creatures. I could draw a much more defined line in how I feel about the creatures and myself. I'm in fence sitting territory with the field chickens.
As far as I've been able to observe the natural order is for the juveniles to be driven out of the group by the seniors. The study on feeding I linked to above attributes the driving out to the senior hen I think from memory. A bit unfair possibly given what I've observed is the tolerance breaking point is often when the juvenile males compete with the senoir rooster and the fights get serious. This could be due to lack of other mating opportunities due to lack of freedom to look elsewhere and a lack of hens to court from another group. This was less of a problem in Catalonia with the tribes. It usually didn't take long until hens from another tribe matured or those from the males own tribe became available/not the senior roosters favourites and a new tribe would form.

Oops got to go. I'll finish what I'm trying to say here later.

 

[Perris]

They were never observed feeding for a long period of time at a spot while foraging

I experience this almost every time I spot some individual or group that I want to offer something privately (e.g. mealworms to youngsters); by the time I have collected what I want to give and got to where they were, they're gone!
They forage and move quietly most of the time too, btw.

makes you wonder how much we complicate their lives by feeding dry cereal that forces them to consume so much water separately

Fwiw mine don't get dry cereal and do eat a lot of greenstuff, but they still drink, so it may only be a minor complication.

 

[Molpet]

Part of me would like to be more like Molpet and others who farm their chickens and other creatures.

It's not for the faint of heart. I have troubles harvesting hens and retired roosters/toms. Snotty boys causing problems make it easier or anybody injured, but still sad. I think about how the birds at the store are raised and rationalize that mine have a longer/better life.

 

[BDutch]

fat.

Today she did not want to be weighed.

Maybe still moulting?
The new feathers seem to hurt when picked up.

 

[Perris]

It's not for the faint of heart. I have troubles harvesting hens and retired roosters/toms. Snotty boys causing problems make it easier or anybody injured, but still sad. I think about how the birds at the store are raised and rationalize that mine have a longer/better life.

culling is hard for me likewise, and I rationalise it the same way. I also find that I get more attached to birds that I nurse back to health, and it's much harder to end their lives then than it would have been when they were injured or seriously ill. But sometimes it seems necessary for everyone's or the majority's good.

 

[Canadian Wind]

It's not for the faint of heart. I have troubles harvesting hens and retired roosters/toms. Snotty boys causing problems make it easier or anybody injured, but still sad. I think about how the birds at the store are raised and rationalize that mine have a longer/better life.

Exactly.

It's not something I enjoy doing, heck I have to force myself to it.

As Shadrach said, in nature the young are driven off. Older or ill birds often die from this too. Because of the unnatural setting we place our charges in, we need to take on the role of nature itself.

 

[Perris]

the young are driven off

they aren't here. They don't divide into 'tribes' either.

Older or ill birds often die from this too

this happens here to superannuated roos and birds ill with something contagious. Birds with non-communicable diseases are left alone or even kept company.