Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

[ManueB]

I'm going to sound crazier than usual but..,
I have no doubt that even the least complex incubators can and do hatch chicks. The various happy clappy hatchalongs on BYC show this as do the hatcheries. Do they hatch healthy well adjusted chicks though?
Even the best incubators are brick thick when compared to the adjustments a broody hen can make to a clutch of eggs and the incubator industry are well aware of this. They read the studies on incubation as it's in their interest and try to develope better incubators and better advice on their use for the commercial concerns.
Not that many years ago the Chinese did an experiment where they took babies from their mothers and reared them in a communal setting with no distinct parents and many other children. None of these babies got breast fed and I imagine none got the same level of affection or interaction with adults that a baby brough up bu it's own parents gets. The experiment got some publicity at the time but what didn't get so much coverage were the long term results. A very high percentage of these children showed difficult in many areas of social interaction in later life. The experiment got dropped to the best of my knowledge.
Despite all the gender complications that may seem common in todays western society it is still generally acknowledged that children raised with two parents (not necessarily male and femal, but two) fared better in many areas than those of single parents, or of no parents known to the child. Consider carefully that this our species with reams of studies and data on parenting and outcomes.
There isn't such data when it comes to chickens. Are chickens raised by a hen and rooster better equiped to deal with the social complexities they will encounter. The chickens social world is very complex when they are kept in captivity, no matter how benign that captivity is. They not only have to learn the social working of their own species but also that of their keeper, their keepers other pets, often a limited and inadequate environment and a constant threat of new predators depending on location.
It's parents that teach much of the basics for all these social complications in human society.
Of course, not many care if the chickens has mental health issues; after all, it's just a chicken...
Not may care if the chicken has long term health issues from how it was treated when growing up, diet, handling, stress, etc etc all play there part in human stability and health. I can see no reason why this doesn't apply to chickens as well.

It's a personal feeling not backed up by science but I can't believe human children raised by a single mentally healthy and stable parent will do worse than those raised by two that fight all the time. I'm not sure how those studies compare what's comparable as social, affective and cultural background and so many other things would have to be taken into account.

I also can't believe that all chicken owners are careless about them. I think many who raise them as pets are very worried about their well being, but have not sufficiently thought about these questions.

I can't help feeling that eggs are meant to be laid in a nest and then left alone until the hen decides the clutch is big enough and sits on them.
Posting, driving them around, candling and all the other things people do just seems like asking for trouble imo.

When I took away Chipie's eggs in the night to switch them with the eggs that Gaston gave us, I was reminded of those horror stories about babies getting switched in the hospital by mad nurses. When she flew away from the nest after pecking at me a few times I imagined she must have been terrified, being attacked by some huge predator she couldn't see.
I think maybe it's why she never left the nest more than 20 mn throughout the three weeks , whereas the day before she had gone sunbathing for two hours.

I don't see how it would be possible to leave everything to nature though for the reasons @Perris mentions. It would mean that only flock with a rooster would be able to reproduce and only through inbreeding.

 

[ManueB]

ManueB send lots of rain to the North. It raining and here.

Todays tax (if that’s allowed?)
View attachment 3137191
Not a coop but art. (At an exhibition at the former queens palace).

If you look closer you can see the structure contains at least a 1000 jars with water. All from different locations and different colours . Some with water plants in it. Some crystal clear. Many with algea.

Now I am dreaming of building an organic formed coop with used wine bottles.

Time to build it.
I have been counting. With an average of 2 bottles a week = 500 weeks = almost 10 years.

You need to ask your friends for their empty wine bottles so you could get a quicker start.

Love the sculpture and the idea!
I could ask a few french friends to contribute, a bottle a day would make it quicker. I couldn't help you as we get our wine helping our elderly neighbour with his vineyard and we get it in 5 liters demijohns every ten days . We have to drink it quickly as with almost no sulphur it turns bad very fast.

 

[Molpet]

I don't see how it would be possible to leave everything to nature though for the reasons @Perris mentions. It would mean that only flock with a rooster would be able to reproduce and only through inbreeding.

Parts of Florida and Hawaii have ferals. They get small because they survive best From predators.

 

[Shadrach]

But orchestrating the bringing in of new genes is necessary.

It is. You've got seven generations before it's considered wise to add a different set of genes.
There are better ways of doing this than sending chicks or eggs through the post which is what concerns me most.

 

[Shadrach]

ManueB send lots of rain to the North. It raining and here.

Todays tax (if that’s allowed?)
View attachment 3137191
Not a coop but art. (At an exhibition at the former queens palace).

If you look closer you can see the structure contains at least a 1000 jars with water. All from different locations and different colours . Some with water plants in it. Some crystal clear. Many with algea.

Now I am dreaming of building an organic formed coop with used wine bottles.

Time to build it.
I have been counting. With an average of 2 bottles a week = 500 weeks = almost 10 years.

Get drinking. I'm sure we will all excuse you if you rant and ramble. We'll put it down to project acceleration.

 

[Shadrach]

Not even a rotten egg?

I'm very fond of Perris. She has some very interesting chickens and she's Welsh I assume and that's almost as good as being a Scot. But there are limits you know.

 

[Shadrach]

You need to ask your friends for their empty wine bottles so you could get a quicker start.

Ah yes. Probably a better idea than my solution.

 

[Shadrach]

Just to muddy the water more, in my extremely small sample, the chickens affinity seems to be age/familiarity related. None of them look alike, and the 2 six year olds, Harper and Nevada (EE and RIR) hang together most and the 3 yo Shelley and Louise (Java and EE) hang together the most. The EEs are different colors and at opposite ends of the hierarchy, Harper is top, and often picks on Lou. Size and body type seem to have nothing to do with it. They do however, move about their different areas as a group.

Yes. In a diverse group being established and arriving together will help form a bond if none of the conditions I mentioned above apply.

 

[Shadrach]

Eve doesn't tear off into the distance, she just goes back to the nest (before they hatched)/chicks now. It strikes me as an outburst of joie de vivre.

Not thank **** i'm off that pile of eggs for a bit then?

 

[Iluveggers]

Despite all the gender complications that may seem common in todays western society it is still generally acknowledged that children raised with two parents (not necessarily male and femal, but two) fared better in many areas than those of single parents, or of no parents known to the child. Consider carefully that this our species with reams of studies and data on parenting and outcomes.

The Chinese study sounds extremely interesting as I have a Sociology background. To play devil’s advocate, I have seen numerous kids at my school raised by two (neglectful, sometimes addicted) parents, and they have no semblance of structure, love, a happy childhood, or family. When CPS comes in and takes a child, often the child cries to stay with a foster parent after being told they are able to visit their parents or that they are moving back home. There are too many circumstances to put a generality on child development. Any good parent, single, couple, biological, adoptive, foster, would be ideal. An orphanage with concerned, caring adults providing love and care would probably be next best. A home full of hate, violence, and abuse would be worse than any alternative care I could think of.

There isn't such data when it comes to chickens. Are chickens raised by a hen and rooster better equiped to deal with the social complexities they will encounter. The chickens social world is very complex when they are kept in captivity, no matter how benign that captivity is. They not only have to learn the social working of their own species but also that of their keeper, their keepers other pets, often a limited and inadequate environment and a constant threat of new predators depending on location.
It's parents that teach much of the basics for all these social complications in human society.
Of course, not many care if the chickens has mental health issues; after all, it's just a chicken...
Not may care if the chicken has long term health issues from how it was treated when growing up, diet, handling, stress, etc etc all play there part in human stability and health. I can see no reason why this doesn't apply to chickens as well.

This also makes sense. On the other hand, there have been hatched on BYC where the last to hatch is pecked to death by the mother hen, or a weaker chick is culled by her. Some may be her eggs, some may be given to her. But either way a broody hen does not always equal a good mother. You may say that culls are better for the species. But comparing that to humans? Imagine all of the wonderful people who have had a great life that may have been physically challenged at birth or needed extra medical intervention.

Not arguing with you by any means, just taking the opposite viewpoint. My dad and I do this a lot, and we will discuss the other viewpoint to understand both sides. (Yes, I was on the debate team in high school!) Critical thinking of complex situations is good for the brain!