Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

[Perris]

20 and 30 chickens of mixed ages and sex in Catalonia. A 20kg bag of commercial feed lasted on average 25 days.

How interesting! I have a similar size and mix flock, and a 20kg bag of mixed grain (80% wheat) lasts about the same, though I also add 5-10% mixed peas, and a sack of them lasts about a year.

 

[Perris]

The main problem being lack of data.

Indeed. And what's been almost absent from our discussion so far is what exactly is in commercial feed. We've written about it as if it's uniform. Those who buy it could have a look at what they get, and we could compare here, because I imagine there's a lot of variation between countries and climates.

 

[ManueB]

High Protein and low carbohydrate with fat making up the energy deficit

Sounds very much like the chicken version of keto diet !
Even if @bruceha2000's experience would tend to show forage and exercise alone isn't enough to prevent FLS. I'm sure we'll all agree with Shadrach that a chicken or a human spending time outside with physical activity will in general fare better.

Feeds have changed a bit since the first commercial feeds for battery hens.
We used to feed a fishmeal based feed on the Hertfordshire farm and the same on my Uncles farm. Even the battery hens at my uncles got fed fish based feed.
For the first couple of years in Catalonia I could still get fish based commercial feed from a local producer. Fish got more expensive; regualtions got tighter and the company packed up.
What I have found is this from my notes.
Protein 24%
Fat 6%
Calcium 6%
That's all I've got.

I'm amazed by the calcium actually. Isn't that higher than any actual commercial layer feed ?

Sky's babies are up on the roosting bars for bedtime for the first time ever. Since the day they hatched, they had been sleeping with her in the nesting box. I remarked to my wife last night that all 3 were trying to snuggle under her, but there wasn't enough room.

There was a Sky sized space between them and the adult birds though.

Sadness may or may not be the right word but absence means something for the flock.
My four original ex-batts that grew up with the two that are missing have been acting very strange, doing a lot of screaming and flapping around.

What I don't understand is what makes the sex linked girls lay so well and why does it shorten their lives? Get worn out I suppose

For the first question it's mainly ovarian follicular development that makes the difference, and this is a genetic factor. This review explains it relatively clearly.
"The laying of eggs starts with an orderly development of follicles in the chicken ovaries until the eggs are produced. Therefore, without the progressive stages of ovarian follicles’ growth and development, the chickens' egg production performance will be reduced".
Another study I saw showed that several genes inducing more frequent laying are more present in hybrids than in their pure breeds parents.

It's not genetics or nutrition, it's both. The same Chinese team of folks doing the research on genetics are also doing lots of papers on all kinds of herbal supplements to improve egg quality, and layers health ( understood as resistance to the most common health problems in commercial laying production which isn't what we mean by health in this thread!).

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This is one of my Fayoumi/Amish barnyard cross roosters Pepper Corn. Sweet and gentle with humans and great with the girls, he's pretty tough on other roosters though. I had hoped that crossing the EFs with the Amish Barnyard crosses would mellow out some of the Game bird genes that I knew were in the Amish birds and the roosters would have some of the more mellow characteristics of the EF roosters.

Nope. I'm still trying though and to get meatier breast and better muscle mass on potential duo purpose birds, cross breeding is the way to go since EFs do not have that duo purpose muscling that a lot of folks look for.

I actually suspect that Pepper is a cross between an EF hen and one of my OEGB SDW roosters due to his coloring and his party colored feet and legs.
View attachment 3201108
This is King Tut my EF flock master. Love him to pieces. He's sweet, great with the hens, protective but definitely not a lap bird. Like my other EFs he will take treats from my hands but don't touch without expecting an explosion in response.

I love their raptor like heads.
View attachment 3201098
Hatched three cockerels and three pullets this spring in my Brinsea. DH named the three boys, Curly Larry and Moe. This is Larry. Surprisingly enough they WILL let me pick them up which won't last forever I suspect but I'm enjoying it while it lasts.
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Two of my mature EF girls I have two that are 3 and one that is 2. I think this is Cleo and Brigid.
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The three yet unnamed pullets from this spring.
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One of the pullets close up.

The lighting wasn't the best. We got 2 inches of rain overnight and everything is pretty cloudy still and soggy. Better than poor St. Louis made out though.

I'm still trying to hatch some EF/Amish cross hens. Been trying for two years now and boys keep popping out of those eggs, drats! Since most of my Amish cross girls are getting long in the tooth, I'm thinking about picking up a few Orscheln chicks next year, pullets and try from them. I'm hoping that the genetic resistance of the EFs will cross over and enhance non EF birds' resistance to MD.

Beautiful birds, I'm stunned by the pullets especially. Thanks for sharing them and your experience !

 

[Perris]

@Iluveggers mentions treats.

And we really need to define treats, because what it means seems to vary hugely, even within a single thread. For a start, I think it only makes sense in discussions about flocks fed mostly commercial feed. And then to make progress (because there's a lot of contradictory views on treats), I think we need abstract outlines, such as 'something high in sugar', rather than specific examples such as 'donuts', because we need clarity on what actually is supposed to be bad in said food, to do the research on in what quantity it might be bad. Everything is toxic in excess. Toxins are things that are harmful in tiny quantities.

 

[ManueB]

Indeed. And what's been almost absent from our discussion so far is what exactly is in commercial feed. We've written about it as if it's uniform. Those who buy it could have a look at what they get, and we could compare here, because I imagine there's a lot of variation between countries and climates.

Very good idea. Unfortunately my partner keeps throwing away the feed bags before I can take pictures, I'll do it next time we buy them. Different brands here do different stuff, but as U_Stormcrow mentioned the protein are usually relatively low and compensated with loads of additives.
Here are example of two organic layers feeds I've used in the past for which I could find the composition online. I'm using Google translate sorry if it's includes some funny mistakes again!

First layer feed :
Triticale (wheat x rye) whole, cracked corn, peas, split fava beans, calcium carbonate in particles, dicalcium phosphate, mineral mix, vitamins and trace elements, organic vegetable oil.

Ingredients guaranteed without GMOs or additives.
Crude protein: 12.8%
Crude fat: 2.
crude fibre: 3.2
Ashes 11.
Methionine 0.1
Lysine: 0.6
Phosphorus 0.3
Sodium 0.1
no info regarding calcium content.

Additives: Vitamins A D3
Choline chloride, Iron, manganese, Iodine; selenium

Second brand :
Wheat, tritical, sunflower expeller feed, soybean expeller, faba bean, alfalfa, barley, calcium carbonate, dicalcium phosphate.

Additives
Vitamins, provitamins: vitamin D3 (E671) 3000 IU/KG, Vitamin A (3a672a) 7500 IU/KG, binders-caking agents: sepiolite (E562) 0 M
Digestibility enhancer: 4a1604i Endo-1, 4-Beta-xylanase EC3218 Rovabio 1100 visco/kg 4a1604i Endo-1, 3(4)-Beta-glucanase EC3216 Rovabio 1500 visco/

Trace elements: Copper (E4 sulfate) 10MG/KG, Iron (E1 sulfate) 40 MG/KG, Manganese (E5 oxide) 100 MG/KG, Zinc (3b603 oxide) 100 MG/KG, Iodine 3b302 (anhydrous calcium iodate ) 1.50 MG/KG Selenium (E8 sodium selenite) 0.3 MG

Analytical constituents :
Crude protein 18.20%, Crude fat 4.70%, Crude fiber 9.20%, Crude ash 8.30%, Lysine 0.79%, Methionine 0.29%, Calcium 1.90%, Phosphorus 0.63%, Sodium 0
.17%nts:/KG.kgG/KGves:us 0.63%, Sodium 0.17%

 

[ManueB]

The sick hen was acting more normally this evening. She ate some fish and rice and some of the commercial feed. Getting her into the new coop and roosting on a bar might be making a difference. The old coop is mite ridden and damp in places.
Nobody is roosting in the old coop now and I can't see them going back. It's been a slower process than I anticipated.
Two of the Legbars went in this evening of their own volition which is a first. They came back out and on their way got pecked by doorway sitter.

I can't help but notice that I have now in effect three coops.
The old coop run where Henry, Matilda and the Legbars roost plus Lima.
Young Lima is a smart hen. She gets on well with Matilda, Henry likes her and she has a Legbar friend from the time she was a very sick hen.
The small coop at the back where three of the relative newcomers roost.
The new coop now housing all the original Ex Battery hens.

I've got to be honest and write I may have inadvertently made/allowed this to happen. But, the first two to take up residence in the new coop were Ex Battery hens. I did nothing to encourage this bar make the coop available. Number three and four were also volunteers. I think I've helped most of the rest at some point bar the last one tonight who just followed the rest.

Lima managed to knock Henry off the perch this evening in her dermination to choose her spot. Henry was completely nerfed. He couldn't see a gap on the perch to jump up to. He even went up the ramp of the new coop and peered in.
He stood under the perch pecking Matilda on her wing to get her to budge up; Matilda moves along all the Legbars do to, like it or not. She's a big hen is Matilda in this lot. Henry got a place eventually but they're like sardines up there.

View attachment 3200954View attachment 3200955

Go Lima! She will show those Legbars and Henry what a determined ex-batt can do! She's allotment wise, as in street wise.

I must admit, I don't understand the allotment people. C and I have been collecting the plums. Nobody else is. They are small but have a good taste and texture.

I feel pretty bad we have let half of ours waste. We collected them and left them in a basket in the entrance. The day we took to take Caramel to the vet was enough to have them spoiled with the heat I saved what I could and made six pots of jam yesterday.

 

[MaryJanet]

And we really need to define treats, because what it means seems to vary hugely, even within a single thread. For a start, I think it only makes sense in discussions about flocks fed mostly commercial feed. And then to make progress (because there's a lot of contradictory views on treats), I think we need abstract outlines, such as 'something high in sugar', rather than specific examples such as 'donuts', because we need clarity on what actually is supposed to be bad in said food, to do the research on in what quantity it might be bad. Everything is toxic in excess. Toxins are things that are harmful in tiny quantities.

Yes, good point.

 

[BDutch]

Just found out that my other hoggie Yorick died this morning. He was at my buddy's facility.

Ooh, so sorry.
Seem to gave missed this message yesterday.
This thread exploded with the long/short lives of commercial breeds vs heritage/barnyard mixes. There are just not enough hours in a day like yesterday.

 

[Molpet]

Indeed. And what's been almost absent from our discussion so far is what exactly is in commercial feed. We've written about it as if it's uniform. Those who buy it could have a look at what they get, and we could compare here, because I imagine there's a lot of variation between countries and climates.

@Kiki has been working on a spreadsheet for feeds. Mainly USA.
Thread '➡ Feed Comparison Spreadsheet' https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/➡-feed-comparison-spreadsheet.1275920/

 

[Shadrach]

Wow. I guess that is the difference between the Catalonia birds free ranging and the current birds only out a few hours a day?

Partly. But what rarely gets taken into account in the feed and keeping debates is a very simple fact; the more eggs a hen lays the more feed she needs. While high production hens produce a lot of eggs, they also need a lot of feed to make those eggs.
So, much as I would like to write that it was the free ranging that had a major impact on the feed consumption, the breed of chicken also makes a major difference.
Also I find it interesting that the French Marans in Catalonia didn't lay as many eggs on average as the Marans I've read about in the USA.
The most steady layers in Catalonia were the Bantams. The eggs were a decent size as well.