Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

[Shadrach]

I dislike it too, but really, is it much different from the meat we buy in the supermarket which was transported to slaughter in such conditions that many are DOA?

Did this make your news feeds?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-stench-from-19000-cattle-on-live-export-ship

You can find similar horror stories from any part of the so-called developed world. Ignorance rules in most of the food chain.

There is a difference but I take your point.
I've stopped reading animal welfare horror stories. I read loads when I first started looking after the Ex Battery hens. After two years of watching them, seeing what they can still become given the chance, the horror just got worse.

 

[fluffycrow]

Oh yes, practiced broodies make the whole thing look very casual.

I couldn't agree more. First time Cruella went broody she was 7 months old, she broke at two weeks (eggs were on day 8). Second time, she needed some assistance to remember to go back into the nest (Ursula would kick her out when wanting to lay). Some time in the last week, and all throughout raising her first batch, Cruella was amazing. Third batch, she did it all on her own, and was amazing at it. Her hatch rate was amazing too. The only think I did was bring her chicks down to the ground from her high nest. Ursula tried to go broody alongside Cruella as well, but she broke and ended up co-raising Cruella's third batch (although Cruella definitely took initiative). We'll see what she does this spring, hopefully she's picked up some tricks from her sister. She was definitely less attentive with her eggs compared to Cruella, even in Cruella's first and unsuccessful try. Last out of the experienced girls we've got the black brahma hen, Gogo (or Efi, I can't remember which name I chose for which bird). She's successfully raised a batch early last spring, according to her previous owner. Excited to see what all these girls do, and what their offspring, adoptive or not, do as well. Mostly Excited about Cruella, though. Can you tell who's the favourite around here? Speaking of favourites, here's some tax. Dad up in the branches having fun with the kids, mum number two watching them from below because she can't fly (silkied bird problems), a random Tsouloufati hen that decided to photo bomb, and the star of the show checking out the nest

 

[BDutch]

my turn to struggle with a foreign language and google translate! Perhaps you can help again?
On the webpage the first paragraph is translated by google as
„ The body temperature of a hen and thus the hatching temperature is 41 degrees Celsius. As long as the temperature of the hatching egg is higher than 25 degrees Celsius, the embryo continues to develop to a limited extent. When an egg cools quickly, the breeding duration will be longer and with slow cooling the breeding duration is shorter. If hatching eggs do not cool uniformly, there will be a greater spread of results ”, says poultry specialist Gerd de Lange of incubator manufacturer Pas Reform.
could what is translated as 'the breeding duration' also/instead be translated as 'viable' / 'viability' / some word indicating still alive and able to continue development in due course?

No I’m pretty sure he means this: the breeding duration is the time from the start of development of the embryo till the moment the chick hatches.

And viability means the egg is fertile and has the ability to have an embryo grow inside. Which is often about 2 weeks but depends much on how the fertilised egg is kept cool but not cold , is kept in a not too humid area and is turned carefully or kept in a carton with the pointy side up.

 

[BDutch]

my turn to struggle with a foreign language and google translate! Perhaps you can help again?
On the webpage the first paragraph is translated by google as
„ The body temperature of a hen and thus the hatching temperature is 41 degrees Celsius. As long as the temperature of the hatching egg is higher than 25 degrees Celsius, the embryo continues to develop to a limited extent. When an egg cools quickly, the breeding duration will be longer and with slow cooling the breeding duration is shorter. If hatching eggs do not cool uniformly, there will be a greater spread of results ”, says poultry specialist Gerd de Lange of incubator manufacturer Pas Reform.
could what is translated as 'the breeding duration' also/instead be translated as 'viable' / 'viability' / some word indicating still alive and able to continue development in due course?

He means that the time for the embryo to develop is not always exact 21 days (or 20 days + … hours) and variations occur. An egg that cools down quickly after the egg is laid , will take longer to hatch when it goes into the incubator.

 

[BDutch]

If a hen's normal body temp is 41 C, how long would she need to sit on a previously laid egg to reactivate it?

Good question!

Trying to match the science to reality makes me think that if the eggs do undergo thermal cycling it isn't a critical feature.

Interesting statement!

From what I've been reading on artificial incubators, around 38 C / 99 F is ideal and the chick emerges in 21 days; if cooler it takes longer, if faster it takes less time.

Yes. I know of eggs under a broody who took 24 days with eggs in a nest/nestbox with a lid hanging outside a small coop. It was early spring and we had a lot of cold wind that month. The situation was discussed on a Dutch chicken forum. Some people said she should toss the eggs. If I recall right she got about 50% hatch rate with healthy chicks.

 

[BDutch]

More a case of too many late nights due to social activities.

.. maybe some whiskey involved?

Indeed, and I think this is true for most bird species

I have been reading a lecture about hatching of different kind of birds, like kanaries, parrots and chickens as well. The differences are really interesting, it seems all bird species seem to know with how many eggs they should give a try to sit and wait.

https://kanariewereld.nl/de-kweek/eieren-behandelen/
The first part is about the day we don’t count when the embryo starts to develop inside the chicken.

The interesting part about different bird species translated with google:
Retention time

A pheasant lays about 15 to 20 eggs and only then begins to breed. A canary puts 4 to 5, sometimes one more. The Palawan peacock pheasant always lays only two and takes about four days. If you keep the eggs of the pheasant for ten days, you can say that none comes out. The eggs then seem to be unfertilized, but when it examined your germ disc, you would see that it was fertilized. You can easily store the eggs of a pheasant for about twenty days, without the outcome of the eggs leading to it. Nature does nothing for no reason.

As a rule of thumb, you can maintain that the number of days saved corresponds to the number of days it takes for a particular bird species to start breeding. So the pheasant three weeks and the Palawan peacock pheasant for four days.

You will come across everything with parrots. Most species lay an egg every once in the day. A Rosella can lay up to 12 eggs. Yet you can't keep the eggs of a Rosella for too long, that has to do with the fact that in nature that bird starts to hatch after the first or second egg. So here too you can see that the storage time has to do with the behavior of the breeding bird. With parrot-like, the rule of thumb is that you should keep the eggs as short as possible.

 

[Shadrach]

Paying for yesterdays sunshine with wind and rain today.
The only one who went out on to the allotments was Mow and me of course collecting water, feed and keeping an eye on Mow.
We are already struggling with Mow's Scaly foot more than leg mite currently. What a thing to inherit.Definitely comes from Henry. Dig is showing a relatively small problem but he's prone to it as well. Successfull treatment requires quite a lot of work. Luckily, both Mow and Dig are easy to catch and handle. See how it goes...

I'm still putting growers pellets in their overnight feed tray. You can see by the state of the ground what they think about this. They will eat them eventually provided there is nothing better on offer; going foraging is something better as is just about anything I might bring apart from their grain mix.

Chatting to my friend who keeps ranging Light Sussex chickens again. I asked him how much he spends on feed. I know he makes his own. He's got 11 chickens at the moment and he estimates he spends £75.00 a month. 30% of their diet is meat/fish. I've seen his chickens and they look very fit. I don't feel quite so crazy now.

 

[BDutch]

The Brazilian paper from 2016 you cited has a lot more on the action and functions of turning: here are some highlights

"Egg turning is a natural behavior of birds during incubation, and therefore, this practice was included in the artificial incubation process. Egg turning allows the diffusion of gases inside the eggs and between the eggs and the external environment. It is critical particularly during the first week of incubation, due to the long distance between the embryo and the shell, and to the high albumen density. During this period, the embryo depends on the diffusion of gases through the eggshell and the albumen to obtain O2 and eliminate CO2, because the embryo develops on the yolk surface and gases are exchanged directly by the embryonic cells. ... By days 13-14 of incubation, fetal metabolic heat production increases, and egg turning aids the circulation of air in the inner surface of the egg (external shell membrane) and air chamber, and allows heat loss by conduction, convection, and evaporation. However, egg turning is also important to prevent dehydration and incorrect embryo development (Wilson, 1991). Moreover, egg turning moves nutrients, facilitating their absorption (Brinsea, 2006). Egg turning is not as simple as it may seem. Egg turning frequency, axis of setting, angle, and plane of rotation influence in-ovo development, which may affect hatchability and chick quality (Wilson, 1991). Landauer (1967) demonstrated that chicken hens turned eggs approximately 96 times daily during natural incubation. ... During natural incubation, eggs are often exposed to temperature fluctuations in the nest, which may be caused by environmental temperature variations or changes in the attention hens direct to the eggs. Before the complete development of the chorioallantoic membrane, around day 12 of incubation (Tullett & Deeming, 1987), the embryo responds to the temperature gradient between the egg region in contact with the hen and the part of the egg in contact with the nest material, directing the blood flow to the colder region, regulating its internal temperature (Tzschentke & Nichelmann, 1997). After the complete development of the chorioallantoic membrane, the

Turning eggs like that is important for the broody but not when they are stored before they go under the broody or into an incubator. This has been researched and they got the best results storing with the pointy side up without any turning.
It’s mentioned in the same lecture as I mentioned in my previous post.

 

[Perris]

.. maybe some whiskey involved?

I have been reading a lecture about hatching of different kind of birds, like kanaries, parrots and chickens as well. The differences are really interesting, it seems all bird species seem to know with how many eggs they should give a try to sit and wait.

https://kanariewereld.nl/de-kweek/eieren-behandelen/
The first part is about the day we don’t count when the embryo starts to develop inside the chicken.

The interesting part about different bird species translated with google:
Retention time

A pheasant lays about 15 to 20 eggs and only then begins to breed. A canary puts 4 to 5, sometimes one more. The Palawan peacock pheasant always lays only two and takes about four days. If you keep the eggs of the pheasant for ten days, you can say that none comes out. The eggs then seem to be unfertilized, but when it examined your germ disc, you would see that it was fertilized. You can easily store the eggs of a pheasant for about twenty days, without the outcome of the eggs leading to it. Nature does nothing for no reason.

As a rule of thumb, you can maintain that the number of days saved corresponds to the number of days it takes for a particular bird species to start breeding. So the pheasant three weeks and the Palawan peacock pheasant for four days.

You will come across everything with parrots. Most species lay an egg every once in the day. A Rosella can lay up to 12 eggs. Yet you can't keep the eggs of a Rosella for too long, that has to do with the fact that in nature that bird starts to hatch after the first or second egg. So here too you can see that the storage time has to do with the behavior of the breeding bird. With parrot-like, the rule of thumb is that you should keep the eggs as short as possible.

that's a very interesting lecture report, and google translate makes a sufficiently good job of it that even the word-swap missteps are recoverable Thanks for linking.

 

[Perris]

The weather's lovely this morning and I got a couple of great photos on the topic of the competition between males here. First, Fforest is definitely the most popular despite being no. 2 in the hierarchy (he's also been more successful in the progeny stakes); here they are gathering

and off goes the foraging party