Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

[Perris]

On reversion to wild type, the distinction between light and heavy breeds must surely be as significant for performance as is personality traits ('flighty' or whatever). Modern meaties are fit only for eating, and in evolutionary terms, that's a real dead end (pun intended ) Natural selection is never going to favour being someone's dinner - unless you're a parasite who needs it for part of your lifecycle of course - but I digress; we're talking chickens.

Heritage breeds were often designed to be dual purpose, so decent layers, and a decent table bird in the cockerels and the tired old hens. The extra size that makes them brick shape may be one of the first things selected out again when they are not confined and entirely dependent on a keeper for all their needs. Anyone got experience of this? For example, reduction in size and weight of offspring of e.g. Australorp, Dorking, Ixworth, Norfolk Grey, Orpington, Sussex.

 

[BDutch]

Rambling about bantams.
In the Netherlands we have almost as many bantam breeds as there are large breeds.
The different breeds are very different indeed. From not being able to fly / being flighty at all (bantam Cochin) to very slender and flighty (my crossbreed Janice ).
We have a site with descriptions of all known breeds in the Netherlands that gives information about the breeds.

Example or the Vorwerk page:

https://www.kippenpagina.nl/kippenrassen/
You need to scroll down beyond the ads to get to the alphabetical list. You can translate it to English if you know the Dutch name and are interested in the characteristics. Kriel means bantam.

@Ribh Bantam Campines are the English variation of Breakel krielen and the come in different colours. I almost bought a 6pack silver Braekel hatching eggs, but when I went to the guy who kept them I choose otherwise because I could see how skittish they where. https://www.kippenpagina.nl/kippenrassen/braekelkriel.html
The Braekel Krielen originate from the Netherlands and are a very old breed.

Spoiler: Translated page of the Braekel kriel

Braekels are temperamental, hardened, trusting and are good flyers.

The color strokes are silver, black, white, gold, blue, blue hemmed and white yellow skin.

Braekels hens lay about 200 eggs per year the weight of the egg is approximately 35 grams and the color of the egg is white.

As a utility breed, the Braekels belong to the laying breeds and decorative breeds.

The Braekel Kriel has a single comb.

The weight of the rooster is about 700 grams and of the hens 650 grams.

The ring size is 13 mm for the rooster and 11 mm for the hens.

For more information about the breed Braekel Hoen, please take a look at the link(s) below

The Brakelhoen Website

 

[Perris]

Somewhere underneath all that domestication the jungle fowl still lives.
That's what I'm interested in, how much jungle fowl is left in the modern domestic chicken. If we know that we are in a better postion to understand what ideal conditions are and that should give better guidance to keeping domestic chickens.

Indeed. Looking up this business about RJF hens chasing youngsters away, I came to a/the apparent source of the Wikipedia entry, one Limburg 1975, who apparently wrote (I haven't checked this yet, or where they got their info) "By four to five weeks of age, the chicks are normally fully feathered. Their first adult wings' feather will take another four weeks to grow. When the chicks are twelve weeks old, the mother chases them out of the group. They will then go on to form their own group or join another."

That sounds to me just like what happens when we talk about broodies having had enough of it and driving their chicks away, which is followed, in a free ranging situation like mine, by the juveniles spending the next couple of months as a group, apart from the rest of the flock during the day, but together to eat (after waiting their turn, which is at the back of the queue) and to roost together with the flock. I wonder if the observers of the RJF behaviour behind that quote saw the first part, but not the second, of a very similar behaviour pattern.

 

[Perris]

It's not looking good for Limburg. It appears to be an introductory book on chicken keeping, by an author who wrote for young people. Shad do you have any other links to some proper work on RJF?

 

[Sally PB]

Let's hear it for J!

 

[Shadrach]

It's not looking good for Limburg. It appears to be an introductory book on chicken keeping, by an author who wrote for young people. Shad do you have any other links to some proper work on RJF?

I have somewhere. I had a drive fail a while ago and stuff got dumped all over the place. This, once one has trawled through the references should throw up some stuff. As you mentioned, the information on JF is partial and conflicting to say the least. I'll look for some others.
I would also like to find the article on physical brain changes but I've had a brief look and I can't see it. I collect lots of studies but I'm hopeless to catagorizing them into a usefull order by title and subject.

https://www.mdpi.com/2076-328X/8/1/13

 

[Shadrach]

Indeed. Looking up this business about RJF hens chasing youngsters away, I came to a/the apparent source of the Wikipedia entry, one Limburg 1975, who apparently wrote (I haven't checked this yet, or where they got their info) "By four to five weeks of age, the chicks are normally fully feathered. Their first adult wings' feather will take another four weeks to grow. When the chicks are twelve weeks old, the mother chases them out of the group. They will then go on to form their own group or join another."

That sounds to me just like what happens when we talk about broodies having had enough of it and driving their chicks away, which is followed, in a free ranging situation like mine, by the juveniles spending the next couple of months as a group, apart from the rest of the flock during the day, but together to eat (after waiting their turn, which is at the back of the queue) and to roost together with the flock. I wonder if the observers of the RJF behaviour behind that quote saw the first part, but not the second, of a very similar behaviour pattern.

"By four to five weeks of age, the chicks are normally fully feathered. Their first adult wings' feather will take another four weeks to grow. When the chicks are twelve weeks old, the mother chases them out of the group. They will then go on to form their own group or join another."

If the above quote is correct then it's hard to see how one would get large groups. When Tull and Sylph started trying to roost in trees, I believe that was the point where their instincts and the family group hints would encourage them to seek alternative accomodation. But, Tull and Sylph were far from being mature enough to interest a male looking to mate and this is what I haven't been able to find observed behaviur studies on. Do they spend a few weeks/months as a sibling group until maturity and then find mates? Do the studies pick up on this? Judging the age of fully feathered chickens is difficult in the best conditions unless one has followed from hatch. That's a lot of time in the jungle. Most of these studies are carried out by students under the authership/guidance of the tutor. Most students do not have weeks and weeks of field work in their degree.

 

[Ribh]

I agree, Bantams do seem to be different. The bantams in Catalonia were at least and I agree that it is probably because they have been messed about with less. I thought they dealt with environment changes better than the Marans and cross breeds. The Catalonian bunch were flighty and as you may recall, all went up trees at roost time and needed persuading to use their coop.
Fayoumies haven't been messed about with much either. They don't lay large enough eggs and not enough eggs it seens for breeders to be interested in trying to turn them into a higher production breed.
There are other breeds that are similar, but less well known, or less desirable for back yard keepers for similar reasons; too flighty, eggs too small and not enough of them. I have never been attacked by a bantam unless one counts broody hens and my presence seemed to have less effect on their behaviour than with the other breeds and crosses.
I imagine Campines are similar, I used to think that of all the chickens I came accross in Catalonia the bantams given a large enough starting population would possibly survive without any human direct involvement.

Rambling about chickens never needs an apology in my view.

Agree bantams seem super adaptable. I think I said that with this lot of broodies I moved them, box, eggs & birds into the new coop & no~one batted an eyelid. Do it to the Campine & not only would she abandon the eggs I'd never hear the end of it!

Also, on my first rooster excursion, the boy, a bantam, seems to regard me as a larger rooster. Happy to share watchman duties & tidbiting as I'm not attempting to mate his ladies. No, he doesn't like being handled but like the ladies he is happy to hang out with me & tolerates my presence with equanimity.

 

[BDutch]

Fyi:
Ini mini left her juveniles to roost with the other hens in the extension. Almost 19 weeks after hatch day.
+
I saw Ini mini eating from the layer pellets today. Before she preferred to eat the chick feed.
————
Not about red jungle fowl but dumped fowl/park fowl: Until previous there was a park in the south of the Netherlands and this was on the news:
Of the approximately 140 roosters and hens that caused nuisance in Sint Willebrord, more than a hundred have now been caught and killed. That same fate also seemed to await the remaining animals, but they remain alive thanks to six animal organizations. “The municipality is not allowed to kill dumped pets at all. They have to arrange good care.” We wanted that, but it was not allowed, says the municipality.

It was brought to court and now its finally clear that these chickens can be killed because the are no pets and have no owner because they are dumped. It was a stressful situation for patients in the nursery in the park and a nearby flat for elderly. Because if this all chickens are gone now.

Want to read the whole story?
Old news https://www.omroepbrabant.nl/nieuws...ark-naast-verzorgingshuis-gered-van-de-slacht

About the dispute / court . It was on Dutch TV yesterday. https://www.linda.nl/nieuws/rijdende-rechter-hanen-dierenorganisatie-lawaai-overlast-fragment/

It must have been an interesting spot for chicken watchers. People said parents came there with children to feed them.

PS: The judge also told dumping animals is a crime in the Netherlands, but didn’t mention how severe a punishment can get.
Dumping is a form of animal abuse , and the dumper risks a maximum of three years in prison or a fine of 19,500 euros.

 

[Ribh]

Bantam Campines are the English variation of Breakel krielen and the come in different colours. I almost bought a 6pack silver Braekel hatching eggs, but when I went to the guy who kept them I choose otherwise because I could see how skittish they where.

I'd never heard of bantam Campines until you mentioned them ~ & not only are Campines skittish they are harridan screamers until they settle down. Mine nearly brained themselves the first few weeks. Any time I came near the coop they went beserk. I am hoping to get a fertile egg from my Ha'penny & the frizzled bantam rooster. Should be a pretty chick & hopefully the rooster's calmness will rub off somewhat. Unfortunately she's an older hen & we are seeing a few soft shelled eggs.

Braekel

I knew about the Braekel because of their relationship to Campines. Campines are a rare breed out here & I alwaays have trouble sourcing them.