Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

[Skyeknight]

A bit late after all the Welsumer/summer discussions and Amsterdamned crap . But I don’t understand part of your objection.

The industrial type of chickens are not real breeds, but go by a name of the ‘manufacturer’ or in general are referred to as laying hybrids. Its not impossible to breed with them bc these are special mixes and only give the right results (>320 egg a year in the first 18 months) with a certain type of rooster (seamon) x certain type of hen.

Is the name hybrid wrong for these laying hybrids too?

The banyard chickens are often referred to as barnyard mixes. Not barnyard hybrids.

Laying hens and meat chickens are indeed not real recognized breeds, they are varieties or strains. And like I said hybrid is not a wrong term for them, I just don't like it. Personally I would refer to them as crosses, like laying cross or meat cross. The genetic formula isn't known to us, but it is known to the respective company. So to me crossing these different strain like the parents strains Hubbard M22 X Hubbard JA87 = a cross(/hybrid) called Hubbard JA287. Personally I just think hybrids should be used only when crossing different species cause we don't have a word only for that, while we do already have a word for crossing different breeds which is crossbreed.

But this is all just me being a stick in the mud. And I don't expect anyone to change which words they use, it's was just me ranting and making an elephant out of a mouse.

 

[Skyeknight]

that I *think* is safe for chickens

Talking about if plants are safe for chickens or not. I was planning to sow some Anthriscus sylvestris. I know sheep love that stuff, so I wondered if it was safe for chickens. That way I have another flowery plant for insects that is still a food source for both chickens and sheep. But when I googled it it said it was toxic to chickens, so I checked what it said for sheep and it was the same! So now I am confused if is should plant it at all. It can be invasive and I worry if maybe they eat too much of it it could have adverse effects. I do know sheep also love to eat potatoes but if they have too much they will get diarrhea and eventually die. So advice on that plant is appreciated!

 

[Skyeknight]

Yes, it's a vast improvement on the cage system. Guess what one of the problems with this system is; the keepers say many of the chickens won't go out there. I wonder if it's anything to do with it not being much like a jungle out there and they are sitting ducks for any and every predator that can climb deal with the fence!
The cost and planning to provide anything like sufficient jungle like cover is huge. I can't see much changing in a hurry.

I have seen pictures of systems like that, but with a few rows of trees/bushes. And in those pictures basically all the chickens are underneath those rows. So yeah I imagine that does play a huge part of going outside or not.

Example picture:
https://www.nieuweoogst.nl/nieuws/2023/04/28/zonnepanelen-boven-vrije-uitloop-leghennen-mogen-straks

 

[rural mouse]

Loved the videos. Great hackle flash in the last one.

She's a leghorn mix of some sort (they called her a White Sapphire). She's full of piss and vinegar and "isn't supposed to go broody". She 4, first time broody, and clearly has no problem telling others to BACK OFF (with a few expletives in the middle). She also got dubbed PITA (yes, it stands for what you think) and is 3rd in the whole goup.

 

[MrsNorthie]

thanks for this. I tracked down the PhD on the preferred species and their nutritional value: It's here if anyone else is interested in 147 pages on the topic

Thank you!

 

[MrsNorthie]

Soil quality is a major issue in an heavily used area of ground. Most farmers farmers know to move cattle and sheep for examples on to new pasture if they are contained. When it comes to chickens a bare patch of ground year after year is apparently fine.

This is exactly why we have expanded the chicken areas and are working toward opening the full property to them. If you try to conform to the common recommendations for area required, per chicken, one has to realize that that is the bare minimum requirement for survival, not for optimal health and happiness, so more is better.

Even keeping 10 chickens, in an area that is double the size of the minimum reqs, the ground very quickly became barren. Between scratching and the rainy season, the grass and other plants were wiped out in a month.

We have been increasing their area, even though they have only made use of a small portion of their land. I notice that they stay very close to the coop and the deep shade areas during the hottest points of the day, but as soon as it starts to cool a little, they spread out more. This tells me, that if they are going to get the maximum benefit from the full property, they are going to need maximum areas of deep shade and several watering stations.

To keep them moving to different areas, I may plant different sections with seasonal variety, so at different times a year, they are drawn to different areas based on seasonal foraging favorites. Theoretically, this will eliminate the need for us to interfere with field rotation.

I also know that I need to control flock size as there is no point in giving them 6 acres, then adding 100 chickens. We have decided, after adding the mohawk menaces, that the only additions will be hatched and raised by our own chickens, and we will only allow a few to be hatched each year. Just enough to maintain and perpetuate the natural genetic flock immunity and knowledge.

These are things that keep me up at night, planning and gives the Egg Thief nightmares..lol

 

[MrsNorthie]

Talking about if plants are safe for chickens or not. I was planning to sow some Anthriscus sylvestris. I know sheep love that stuff, so I wondered if it was safe for chickens. That way I have another flowery plant for insects that is still a food source for both chickens and sheep. But when I googled it it said it was toxic to chickens, so I checked what it said for sheep and it was the same! So now I am confused if is should plant it at all. It can be invasive and I worry if maybe they eat too much of it it could have adverse effects. I do know sheep also love to eat potatoes but if they have too much they will get diarrhea and eventually die. So advice on that plant is appreciated!

I wonder, there are so many plants where this specific plant is not toxic, but they have a toxic "twin", so the general line is, just treat it all as toxic?

 

[Perris]

To keep them moving to different areas, I may plant different sections with seasonal variety, so at different times a year, they are drawn to different areas based on seasonal foraging favorites. Theoretically, this will eliminate the need for us to interfere with field rotation.

Empirically I have found that the chickens organize rotation grazing themselves, resting areas before they become exhausted and until they are naturally regenerated. Obviously it's a good idea for you to evaluate existing resources and fill in any seasonal gaps as you can, but there's a lot of forage under the hood, so to speak, and focussing attention and effort just on the bits we do see and recognize risks upsetting the bits we don't see and don't include in our plans. The unintended harmful consequences of interference may exceed the intended beneficial consequences of the same action. I think what I'm trying to say is, don't overthink it

I also know that I need to control flock size as there is no point in giving them 6 acres, then adding 100 chickens.

Yes, but... (again discovered empirically but blindingly obvious in hindsight) as the quality of your acreage improves, so it will be able to sustain more birds. Quality matters at least as much as quantity: An acre of meadow will sustain a lot more than an acre of sand. So keep your plans dynamic, not static, so they can respond to the changes that come about gradually.

allow a few to be hatched each year. Just enough to maintain and perpetuate the natural genetic flock immunity and knowledge.

A self-sustaining flock needs about 30 members I've found.

 

[Perris]

I wonder, there are so many plants where this specific plant is not toxic, but they have a toxic "twin", so the general line is, just treat it all as toxic?

Will you stop eating potatoes, tomatoes and aubergine then? (Because they are same family as deadly nightshade and other toxic plants.)

 

[Perris]

But when I googled it it said it was toxic to chickens, so I checked what it said for sheep and it was the same! So now I am confused

According to wikipedia, whose descriptions are good enough for iNaturalist, the plant in question is edible in all parts above ground https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthriscus_sylvestris but some sources say it may be mildly toxic.

The confusion may arise from the fact that it is difficult to distinguish from hemlock, which is toxic.

Edited to add: all this refers to human consumption of course. I have found it extremely difficult to get any sensible nutritional information on wild plants, so would demand sources and evidence from anyone claiming anything about cow parsley as forage. (And for the sake of clarity, google does not equal either evidence or source.)