She said/He said Who's right? Who's wrong? No one!

[scflock]

I hope you able to figure it out. It is disheartening to lose them after they hatch. You haven't wasted a year you have gained and shared valuable knowledge. Tried knew methods of incubation practice. You have definitely taught me loads. I will have to do some research on post hatch mortality and how to prevent it. Hang in there, maybe the girls are still a bit young.

I have learned every year, and I post my failures with the successes so I can get help and others can learn, but it's fun being mean Mr.Flock, spewing venom and ing people
These BCM have taken me down a few notches

 

[RubyNala97]

Ruby, that packing is horrid.  Thanks for posting the comparison.  I'm really looking forward to doing a shipathon next spring!  It'll be a good experience for all involved, me thinks.

Ozexpat uses foam blocks with egg sized holes drilled in the foam, I think with bubble wrap above and below the eggs.  Has very good results with that.  Expensive though.  But... the cost for shipped eggs of a breed that you otherwise can't obtain would be well worth it.


Malposition is IMO most likely related to chick getting too big in the shell, which is IMO related to egg being too wet.  Hatching in cartons should help the wet chick situation by keeping the aircell at the top of the egg, so if the chick pips into the aircell, there won't be any liquid there.  Malposition will happen, regardless of hatching position (IMO). 

All of this is a huge learning experience for me. In fact this whole year has been a huge learning process! I would definitely pay to have them packed that way. If you can't get chicks to hatch you're just wasting money. I was so concerned with the p.o loosing my package last time, I really didn't think it was her packing job that caused the damage. But I'm really leaning towards that now!! Thanks for all of the insight.

That is really crappy luck. Hopefully you can get them to reattach. One of my last batch was detached and it reattached turned into a saddle cell and hatched unassisted. Can you describe how they were packed. If you had cracked eggs I think you can claim on the insurance.  


I did read that tying to dry the aircells helped them to reattach. But you must do what you feel is the best. You can always check the cells and adjust accordingly. I did go dry the first week last time and added water once the 2nd and 3rd weeks and gradually increased it over lock down, day 18 45% day 19 55% day 20 65% and 75% after first pip. For what it is worth.

I posted a couple pics a few posts back of the packing and compared it to packing that had little to no damage with air cells.
That actually sounds like a really good idea about gradually increasing humidity. What did you have humidity at for week 2 and 3? I really like how you did days 18-21. I think I'll try that. I have read that too about running dryer but something in my head keeps thinking the opposite! I don't know why!!

Until the BCM, all of my best hatches were at 40%

I'm really starting to think it's the first straight run batch. Tate has his issues, so I'm sure the hens do, too, just not as obvious. I really, really wish I had been patient and spent the money on better stock. Someone posted pics of their GFF BCM growing out, and they are gorgeous. If I have to scrap this flock, I've wasted an entire year.
I have heard so much about that on here, I ordered some last night

I'm new to all this so you can smack me for what I'm about to say. But if you're not happy with your stock, why would you breed them? Won't that just waste more time and money by feeding them, paying electric to incubate them, etc. Why not sell off your current stock and start hatching eggs or buy chicks from a breeder that makes you ? Then expand from there?

I agree, it seems that dryer would help with aircell stability... but then.... what do I know.  I've never tried to hatch a shipped egg.  You might contact Sally Sunshine, or Ozexpat about this issue.  As a matter of fact, how bout inviting both of them over to this thread for a conversation?  I'd suggest that if we do, keep the "humor" to a minimum.

Thank you for the suggestion!! I will try that!

 

[Ravynscroft]

Good points! 

Speaking of shaking an egg and scrambling it.... I watched a video the other evening of "life hacks"... you know, those guys that try to figure out ways to do things easier/quicker.  There were several things related to eggs.  Like "frying" one in the microwave, etc.  But the particular one that struck me was they took an egg, and placed it in the center of a long sleeve, grabbed one end in each hand, and twirled it around about 15 times.  Kinda like a jump rope, with the egg in the middle.  Then they boiled it, or cooked in the microwave, and when peeled, it was totally scrambled! All one shade of pale yellow. 

So what happens, in regards to incubation, if the yolk gets busted during shipping?  Is that an automatic goner?  (I've never tried shipped eggs, obviously!)

If a yolk gets busted, that is total loss... the chick that develops comes entirely out of the yolk, that is the 'essence'... hence the fertile spot on the yolk...

 

[WVduckchick]

If a yolk gets busted, that is total loss... the chick that develops comes entirely out of the yolk, that is the 'essence'... hence the fertile spot on the yolk...

I assumed so, but still had to ask...

 

[Ravynscroft]

I assumed so, but still had to ask...  

The only stupid question is the one never asked...

Everyone always concentrates on air cell damage and damage to the albumen, but very rarely does anyone think about how much the yolk might be scrambed inside its containment... even if the yolk isn't broken, how do you think that liquid does if it is shaken too much?

I have a shipped story that I think is more key to damages in eggs we can't see... will tell it soon, posting long is hard through app, lol...

 

[chicapee]

All of this is a huge learning experience for me. In fact this whole year has been a huge learning process! I would definitely pay to have them packed that way. If you can't get chicks to hatch you're just wasting money. I was so concerned with the p.o loosing my package last time, I really didn't think it was her packing job that caused the damage. But I'm really leaning towards that now!! Thanks for all of the insight.

I posted a couple pics a few posts back of the packing and compared it to packing that had little to no damage with air cells.
That actually sounds like a really good idea about gradually increasing humidity. What did you have humidity at for week 2 and 3? I really like how you did days 18-21. I think I'll try that. I have read that too about running dryer but something in my head keeps thinking the opposite! I don't know why!!
I'm new to all this so you can smack me for what I'm about to say. But if you're not happy with your stock, why would you breed them? Won't that just waste more time and money by feeding them, paying electric to incubate them, etc. Why not sell off your current stock and start hatching eggs or buy chicks from a breeder that makes you ? Then expand from there?
Thank you for the suggestion!! I will try that!

That highest was about 42 % then I just didn't add any more until I candled. Then I decided that the cells were good so added a little more water and let it dry out again until lock down.

Eta. That was a terrible pack job. I would want a refund. Those eggs didn't stand a chance.

 

[RubyNala97]

90% of our flocks are from shipped eggs... and with the exception of 1 pen (and that is already being changed) all our breeds are from at least 2 different lines/breeders for good genetic diversity...

I've received many, many boxes of eggs... some packed well, others not so much... key in well packed eggs isn't necessarily the materials and methods, it is the snug suspension of the eggs... I've had them shipped to me in cartons and done well, also in the foam egg blocks and they were totally scrambled...

Double boxing works well as long as the inner box cannot shift around... a single box will work well if the inside is lined with enough padding... the eggs need to be snuggly packed and good shock absorbing material around the outside of them... funny enough, carpet padding works really well... air cell up is best as is marking the box fragile and this end up... I do not go for the 'live hatching eggs' markings, those have seemed to be the most beat up...

But, this can all be done and still get scrambled eggs... another factor is which PO hubs did the box go through and how many... I've found it is not the distance they travel, it's the transfer points they go through... some hubs are more likely to cause damages than others, for instance if a box goes through Nashville to me it's ok, but if it has to go through the Memphis PO hub, I know it's gonna come scrambled each time... (Memphis transfers their twice and takes 2 days to come out of the city, dunno why)

If you can ask the sender to send the eggs packed a specific way, then ask... good breeders and people will listen... if they argue then (and this is really hard) walk away and find someone else... do not keep trying to get eggs from a source that is not going to help your odds in hatching from the end they control...

My birds are not the best of the best, but they're not total junk either... I am truthful in what needs work and what I have going... anyone who says their birds are all perfect SQ and that is what you'll get as well, is full of it and you should walk away then... I don't sell eggs yet per se, as some things need a bit more work than I am happy with releasing... but I do offer some of my eggs as a decent start to ones I feel deserve it... but if they can't accept that anything be less than perfect I will refuse and move on as well...

As for incubating shipped eggs, at that point the damage that has been done to any eggs is done... all you can do is your best and hope that you get any live hatches... eggs were never meant to be shipped so my thoughts behind it is if a single chick survives, then that is a success...

Btw, if you take an egg in your hand and shake the crud out of it, it can scramble that way as well... so even the best packing ever cannot stop damage caused by the box just get shaken excessively...

Oops, sorry that was a lot... anyways, just my experiences and hope they help someone...

Yes, all excellent info!

Sally just came back she has been quite ill. But I saw her on her shipped eggs thread a couple of days ago

Yes, I talked to her for the first time the other day. I should have asked about shipped eggs, aircells and humidity. There is someone named Pete in the goose section that's really good with shipped. Maybe I'll ask him.

 

[sideWing]

90% of our flocks are from shipped eggs... and with the exception of 1 pen (and that is already being changed) all our breeds are from at least 2 different lines/breeders for good genetic diversity...

I've received many, many boxes of eggs... some packed well, others not so much... key in well packed eggs isn't necessarily the materials and methods, it is the snug suspension of the eggs... I've had them shipped to me in cartons and done well, also in the foam egg blocks and they were totally scrambled...

Double boxing works well as long as the inner box cannot shift around... a single box will work well if the inside is lined with enough padding... the eggs need to be snuggly packed and good shock absorbing material around the outside of them... funny enough, carpet padding works really well... air cell up is best as is marking the box fragile and this end up... I do not go for the 'live hatching eggs' markings, those have seemed to be the most beat up...

But, this can all be done and still get scrambled eggs... another factor is which PO hubs did the box go through and how many... I've found it is not the distance they travel, it's the transfer points they go through... some hubs are more likely to cause damages than others, for instance if a box goes through Nashville to me it's ok, but if it has to go through the Memphis PO hub, I know it's gonna come scrambled each time... (Memphis transfers their twice and takes 2 days to come out of the city, dunno why)

If you can ask the sender to send the eggs packed a specific way, then ask... good breeders and people will listen... if they argue then (and this is really hard) walk away and find someone else... do not keep trying to get eggs from a source that is not going to help your odds in hatching from the end they control...

My birds are not the best of the best, but they're not total junk either... I am truthful in what needs work and what I have going... anyone who says their birds are all perfect SQ and that is what you'll get as well, is full of it and you should walk away then... I don't sell eggs yet per se, as some things need a bit more work than I am happy with releasing... but I do offer some of my eggs as a decent start to ones I feel deserve it... but if they can't accept that anything be less than perfect I will refuse and move on as well...

As for incubating shipped eggs, at that point the damage that has been done to any eggs is done... all you can do is your best and hope that you get any live hatches... eggs were never meant to be shipped so my thoughts behind it is if a single chick survives, then that is a success...

Btw, if you take an egg in your hand and shake the crud out of it, it can scramble that way as well... so even the best packing ever cannot stop damage caused by the box just get shaken excessively...

Oops, sorry that was a lot... anyways, just my experiences and hope they help someone...

One more thing you might try is to request they put no fragile stickers or egg stickers on the box. My best shipped hatches came from a plain brown box. I have not done it a lot, but I have read a great blog post from a breeder that only adds them if the buyer requests it.

I have learned every year, and I post my failures with the successes so I can get help and others can learn, but it's fun being mean Mr.Flock, spewing venom and ing people

These BCM have taken me down a few notches

It's great to see the updates SC. Really making me glad that I purchased shipped BCM chicks instead of having eggs shipped. I think I would have been disappointed.

 

[scflock]

I'm new to all this so you can smack me for what I'm about to say. But if you're not happy with your stock, why would you breed them? Won't that just waste more time and money by feeding them, paying electric to incubate them, etc. Why not sell off your current stock and start hatching eggs or buy chicks from a breeder that makes you ? Then expand from there?

Thats a very valid point, and I agree, but I have reasons. First, until this year my chickens have always been pets. I allowed myself to get attached to Tate. Until I have extra AMs to give him for an olive egger pen, his girls stay.
Second, even breeding faulty birds is teaching me a lot about breeding. If I can improve these birds, I will be ahead of the game when I get better stock.
Lastly, Mrs. Flock would the crap out of me if I buy any more birds this year

 

[scflock]

One more thing you might try is to request they put no fragile stickers or egg stickers on the box. My best shipped hatches came from a plain brown box. I have not done it a lot, but I have read a great blog post from a breeder that only adds them if the buyer requests it. 

It's great to see the updates SC. Really making me glad that I purchased shipped BCM chicks instead of having eggs shipped. I think I would have been disappointed. 

When I get better stock, there is no doubt I am paying for live chicks. Your breeder isn't too far from me, so I'm looking forward to watching yours grow