Shipped eggs; rant + questions

[shmccarthy]

Part of this is a small rant, part of this is questions.
I got my new incubator and it was just sitting there all lonesome with no eggs to warm, because I currently don't have chickens right now. I got a little ahead of myself and before I knew it, I had 2 shipments of 24 silkie eggs on their way to my house. I made sure to have them sent on Monday, priority mail and insurance and tracking. One had a heat pack the other did not. The one that had a heat pack was my bearded show quality eggs dozen. That one, the seller put "HOLD AT POST OFFICE AND CALL xxx-xxx-xxxx"
Obsessively could be a word describing how often I was tracking the packages. We had all those storms and one package made it in 3 days and the other in 4. (Mlk jr day played a role in it). The one that "made it" in 3 days was my bearded show quality silkie eggs. I was on job training in a different city the day they came but had my phone on my the entire time. I checked the tracking on my break and it said they arrived in my hometown. I also had an egg candler that had arrived the very same time and day at the post office. The egg candler was supposed to be sent out for delivery, the eggs they were supposed to call me. I was supposed to get back to my house with plenty of time before the post office closed so I could pick up my eggs. I got home around 3pm and checked the mail and my tracking. The tracking info for the eggs changed to "Out for delivery" I was a bit upset but I figured it's okay because I'll be home and they probably just figured to deliver it with the candler I had coming. Well I sat around the house until 5 and waited, and waited. I have a very long driveway, but it is plowed or we wouldn't be able to go down it. Finally at 5:30 I checked tracking again and it said my candler was delievered. I walked to the mailbox and it was in the mailbox. Usually they drive it down the driveway but I guess the snow had a factor.. Even though it was plowed pretty well.. So I checked the tracking AGAIN and it changed, again. This time it said the eggs were at the post office for pickup, instead of out for delivery like it said a few hours prior. I called the post office and after speaking with a rather rude woman that insisted that I just pick it up in the morning and it's no big deal, I told her it was their job to call and they did not and she let me come pick it up even though it was after hours. The package was freezing and I got it home as quickly as possible. The eggs read at about 40.1F I let them warm up for 18 hours and put them in the incubator. I had been letting the incubator run for about 3 days beforehand. The eggs were packaged exceptionally and one had a hairline crack but I'm not sure if that happened before or after shipping. I repaired it and put it in the incubator but have been keeping an eye on it. Half the eggs in this shipment were really porous so I'm not sure what that means but I've heard it's not too good. :/
Anyways the second shipment was even worse, believe it or not. That day, I didn't have to work so I hung around the house waiting for the mail. At about 11:55 the tracking updated and said "notice left" for my other shipment of silkie eggs. I checked all the doors and the mailbox and there was no notice anywhere. I called the post office again as was able to speak with the manager. I explained everything to him about what happened yesterday and the imaginary notice left today. He apologized up and down and I could tell he really felt bad. I told him they're love embryos I'm recieving so the longer they're in transit, the less likely their survival. I could feel over the phone his expression change and he said he would do everything he could to figure out what happened with both packages. He told me that unfortunately the driver is still on her route so I would have to wait to get the eggs. He called me back a couple hours later and I found out what happened. He said the driver is a sub and she is terrible. He has had multiple complaints and this is definitely not the first time she's done this to people. He said she is unionized and fights every complaint against her. He said he would add both my claims to a case file to go against her and he would giver her a piece of his mind when she gets back and deliver the eggs himself. These eggs weren't as cold as the others and I let them all sit for 18 hours too. 4 had detatched air cells and 3 of them reattached. None were very porous looking at all although some looked weird.

One egg looks like it's filled with water. I can't see a yolk at all and the air cell won't reattach. I assume this one will not develop. Another, the air cell took up about a third of the size of the egg! I assume this is bad too?

It's day 6ish and I know I'm supposed to candle tomorrow but I got anxious. I've been keeping it steady temp and the autoturner has been turning them. None look like they're developing. Some look obviously empty and only 2 or 3 look a lot darker, like its possible development but not as veiny as I've previously seen. I'll post some pictures.

 

[shmccarthy]

A good chunk of the eggs look like this, not sure if it's developing or not :/ I've only done two small 3 egg hatches. 5/6 total hatched and I only candled at day 18 for these ones.

Since I set a dozen about 24 hours after the first, these first two pictures are from day 5, I guess. What do y'all think?

Here's another from day 5 batch. A lot darker than the others. Didn't look like this when I set them so I'm thinking there's life in this one?

Like I said earlier, most of the eggs look the same but here's one from day 6. Most of the others are too porous to tell what's going on in there, for me at least.

Here's one of the funky eggs. That bright lite is the AIR CELL? It doesn't smell rotten but I think this egg is very old...or something.

Here's another really dark egg. I can't remember if this one is on 5 or six. (I'm locking down at day 18 for the first ones I set)

Funky egg number 2
As you can see it's really watery and you can see the detached air cell. I think this one is a dud too.

 

[Farmer Viola]

Quote: if you are turning the eggs all around to see if they're re-attached, that should stop asap. It is vitally important that you allow the eggs to sit with the large end up, completely undisturbed so they can heal - no turning on their sides, or upside down. Detached air cells are an extra special case, even beyond just shipped eggs. it will take 14 days for them to fully re-heal.

I do not remove the eggs from the incubator at all during this time, even to candle, until d15. I will candle inside the incubator without picking the eggs up prior to d15.


Here are the changes I make to the hatch plan, when I receive detached air cells:

• rest 24hr
• begin increasing temperature slowly over 8hrs
• add to incubator, but do not turn for the first 48 hrs - then begin turning
• remove incubator lid for 10-15min/day for daily cooling (not related to detached, but a theory I'm testing since a broody hen gets off a nest every day)
• candle within the incubator, do not remove until day 15.
  the air cell takes 2 weeks to re-heal. I must avoid turning the eggs on their side, only candle upright
• stop turning early, on day 16 instead of 18.
• hatch upright in egg cartons (not on their sides)

 

[Farmer Viola]

A good chunk of the eggs look like this, not sure if it's developing or not

I've only done two small 3 egg hatches. 5/6 total hatched and I only candled at day 18 for these ones.

Since I set a dozen about 24 hours after the first, these first two pictures are from day 5, I guess. What do y'all think?


Here's another from day 5 batch. A lot darker than the others. Didn't look like this when I set them so I'm thinking there's life in this one?


Like I said earlier, most of the eggs look the same but here's one from day 6. Most of the others are too porous to tell what's going on in there, for me at least.


Here's one of the funky eggs. That bright lite is the AIR CELL? It doesn't smell rotten but I think this egg is very old...or something.


Here's another really dark egg. I can't remember if this one is on 5 or six. (I'm locking down at day 18 for the first ones I set)


Funky egg number 2
As you can see it's really watery and you can see the detached air cell. I think this one is a dud too.

look for veins within the eggs... that will be your sign of life. From the photos I cannot see any veins, but it is hard to tell from here....

the first egg looks good, see how the yolk is right in the center? that is a good sign. with shipped eggs (and detached air cells indicate EXTRA damage), sometimes the chelaza that holds the yolk in place will become severed. this is 1 way that shipped eggs become non-viable. the chalaza is that tiny white string you see when you crack an egg. it holds the yolk dead-center in the middle of the egg white. the chick develops "on" the yolk, in the center! SO the fact that the chelaza is working as intended, is a good sign. Again, I would avoid turning the eggs upside down any more. Only hold them upright due to their detached air cells.

they don't look too porous, only the last one looks porous and even then I don't think it's bad. when you can see little dots around the egg shell like that, it just means the egg is a little bit thinner than we want. IF you were able to be picky (eg: if these were from your own hen), you might not keep that egg over a thicker nicer shelled egg. given that they are shipped, I don't see anything wrong with keeping that porous egg shell in (other than it is not developing yet).

I would keep all the eggs in until at least day 10 before throwing any away. anything that is still clear (no veins) by d10 can be safely tossed

I don't know what to make of the 1 egg with the huge air cell. did you weigh it when you got it? you may be right that it is an older egg (maybe included by accident or as a bonus)

 

[Farmer Viola]

pictures of candling:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/candling-pics-progression-through-incubation-of-chicken-eggs

pictures of inside/out - showing embryo development by day outside the egg shell
http://www.the-chicken-chick.com/2012/03/chicken-embryo-development-views-from.html

 

[shmccarthy]

if you are turning the eggs all around to see if they're re-attached, that should stop asap. It is vitally important that you allow the eggs to sit with the large end up, completely undisturbed so they can heal - no turning on their sides, or upside down. Detached air cells are an extra special case, even beyond just shipped eggs. it will take 14 days for them to fully re-heal.

I do not remove the eggs from the incubator at all during this time, even to candle, until d15. I will candle inside the incubator without picking the eggs up prior to d15.


Here are the changes I make to the hatch plan, when I receive detached air cells:

• rest 24hr
• begin increasing temperature slowly over 8hrs
• add to incubator, but do not turn for the first 48 hrs - then begin turning
• remove incubator lid for 10-15min/day for daily cooling (not related to detached, but a theory I'm testing since a broody hen gets off a nest every day)
• candle within the incubator, do not remove until day 15.
  
  the air cell takes 2 weeks to re-heal. I must avoid turning the eggs on their side, only candle upright
• stop turning early, on day 16 instead of 18.
• hatch upright in egg cartons (not on their sides)

So is it too late to save the egg with the detached air cell? I couldn't see any development in it what so ever. :/ I could take it out of the turner and just turn by hand until lockdown. I will keep that information for future reference, if I use shipped eggs again. So I would just keep it upright for the 14 days undisturbed? What about turning?

 

[shmccarthy]

look for veins within the eggs... that will be your sign of life. From the photos I cannot see any veins, but it is hard to tell from here....

the first egg looks good, see how the yolk is right in the center? that is a good sign. with shipped eggs (and detached air cells indicate EXTRA damage), sometimes the chelaza that holds the yolk in place will become severed. this is 1 way that shipped eggs become non-viable. the chalaza is that tiny white string you see when you crack an egg. it holds the yolk dead-center in the middle of the egg white. the chick develops "on" the yolk, in the center! SO the fact that the chelaza is working as intended, is a good sign. Again, I would avoid turning the eggs upside down any more. Only hold them upright due to their detached air cells.

they don't look too porous, only the last one looks porous and even then I don't think it's bad. when you can see little dots around the egg shell like that, it just means the egg is a little bit thinner than we want. IF you were able to be picky (eg: if these were from your own hen), you might not keep that egg over a thicker nicer shelled egg. given that they are shipped, I don't see anything wrong with keeping that porous egg shell in (other than it is not developing yet).

I would keep all the eggs in until at least day 10 before throwing any away. anything that is still clear (no veins) by d10 can be safely tossed

I don't know what to make of the 1 egg with the huge air cell. did you weigh it when you got it? you may be right that it is an older egg (maybe included by accident or as a bonus)

I didn't take any pictures of the very porous eggs, there's probably 8 or 9 that are very porous. I will take pictures if them in the next few days when I candle again. I really don't want to disturb them too much.

I don't see any veining at all with any of the eggs. I can't tell with the porous ones because it's kind of hard to see. Most of the eggs look like the first one in the picture with a really visible yolk in the middle. I just thought at day 5-6 I would be able to at least see the veins. In my little RCOM I saw veins at day 4, so I'm a bit worried they're not developing at all.
Some of the eggs are a bit darker than the others, like a dark red and I can't see the yolk as easily. It just doesn't look like a lot is going on. I will not get rid of any until day 10. But I don't even know what to look for at day 10 at this point because they just don't seem to be developing like my last small hatch.
I didn't weigh the egg, I didn't even really think to do so. But I think I should get a scale for future.
Only the one egg pictured has a detached air cell. 4 came detached but they don't look like they are anymore. All eggs are marked in pencil with the color of the hen that laid them.
They're all in the turner big end up.

 

[Farmer Viola]

So is it too late to save the egg with the detached air cell? I couldn't see any development in it what so ever.

I could take it out of the turner and just turn by hand until lockdown. I will keep that information for future reference, if I use shipped eggs again. So I would just keep it upright for the 14 days undisturbed? What about turning?

sorry if it was unclear.. this is what I do..

rest for 24 hours. place in incubator - do not turn for the first 2 days of incubation (detached). then begin normal turning. end turning on day 16 (earlier than usual)

 

[Farmer Viola]

I didn't take any pictures of the very porous eggs, there's probably 8 or 9 that are very porous. I will take pictures if them in the next few days when I candle again. I really don't want to disturb them too much.

I don't see any veining at all with any of the eggs. I can't tell with the porous ones because it's kind of hard to see. Most of the eggs look like the first one in the picture with a really visible yolk in the middle. I just thought at day 5-6 I would be able to at least see the veins. In my little RCOM I saw veins at day 4, so I'm a bit worried they're not developing at all.
Some of the eggs are a bit darker than the others, like a dark red and I can't see the yolk as easily. It just doesn't look like a lot is going on. I will not get rid of any until day 10. But I don't even know what to look for at day 10 at this point because they just don't seem to be developing like my last small hatch.
I didn't weigh the egg, I didn't even really think to do so. But I think I should get a scale for future.
Only the one egg pictured has a detached air cell. 4 came detached but they don't look like they are anymore. All eggs are marked in pencil with the color of the hen that laid them.
They're all in the turner big end up.

wonderful! sounds like you're doing everything right I am SO happy only one was detached, I thought you had more detached than that so that is fantastic news!!

do not give up yet... you are right you should be seeing *something* by now, but don't give up hope... wait until day 10 and then candle again and post pictures

as for what to look for, check out this link: https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/candling-pics-progression-through-incubation-of-chicken-eggs

 

[shmccarthy]

I had to throw out most of the eggs today. I candled them all and got rid of all the bad ones and the clear ones. I have about 8 maybes in there right now but none that look like they're for sure developing. :/ none if the eggs that I took out developed past day 1 it looked like. Some of the ones I left are really dark red as opposed to all the clear ones so maybe there's still hope. Idk though because there's still no veining. Just really dark red.