Should I get rid of a rooster?

[aart]

My goal is primarily eggs, but I would like to keep the door open to hatching with them because I'm trying to be more sustainable/regenerative.

Of course, I've also left the door open for the males to become meat if necessary.

Sounds good...you can start the meat aspect by slaughtering one of those males.

I used to hatch replacement layers from my flock every year.
All cockerels were slaughtered at about 3-4 months(before they started causing trouble).
and the older hens would be slaughtered in the fall before winter population limits got important

 

[Mrs. K]

Perhaps you would be interested in this, perhaps not, but as you have young children I would feel negligent for not adding this. Most inexperienced people misinterpret aggressive behavior until they have an attack. Most inexperienced people vastly underestimate how violent an attack can be.

Things to look for showing signs of possible aggression in a cockerel:

• flapping his wings at you, puffing up big when you come into the coop/run area
• walking toward you when you are bringing food, this appears friendly, but indicates no respect for your space. These are not like puppies or kittens.
• Jumping up on something to be as tall as you or just taller
• Excessive crowing when you enter the set up
• Stink eye - he is glaring at you
• Sneaking behind you, if you turn suddenly, he will pretend he wasn't, if you don't, often times this is where the first attack comes from
• A lot of roosters are opportunist, so they often will attack children first, then women, and finally men. So be aware - how he acts around you, is not how he maybe acting around kids. Roosters have ruined the whole chicken experience for a lot of kids.
• If kids and birds share a yard, their natural playing and outside voices can be upsetting to an aggressive rooster.

Good signs:

• He naturally moves away from you, casually keeping about 4-6 feet away from you.
• He approaches slowly, and calls and tidbits the hens to food
• He is not aggressive with the hens
• He keeps the girls together when free ranging (this is an exceptional rooster, but such a pleasure to have)
• He checks out nests, tries and find or create a wonderful nest for his girls.
• He escorts them into lay
• He calls alarms when predators approach
• He is good with chicks

Mrs K

 

[Ridgerunner]

Hi, welcome to the forum from Louisiana. Glad you joined.

I have heard that you need a ratio of 8-10 hens for a rooster, but is that PER ROOSTER, or just a recommendation to have a small flock if you decide to have a rooster?

You can read a lot on here. Some people are so stiff and rigid in their belief in magic numbers you read on here that they'd get a hernia if they burped. Some of us are more relaxed. I'm talking about things like square feet per chicken, linear feet of roost per chicken, and brooder temperatures as well as boy to girl ratio. The reality is that we keep them in so many different conditions and climates, for different goals, with different flock make-ups and management techniques, different breeds (which can mean vastly different sizes of the individual birds), and many more differences that there is no one answer that fits us all. The climate difference in Fargo, North Dakota and Miami, Florida can make a difference in many of these.

I understand that people just starting out need some help. They don't have the experience to base anything on. Some of these numbers you see are general guidelines. They are intended to keep most people safe even if they do a few things wrong. An example of that is brooder temperature. You may read to start with a certain temperature (I've seen 90 F, 95 F, and 100 F all given as a starting point) and drop it 5 degrees per week. The intent here is no matter how horrible your brooder is you will be OK temperaturewise as long as you follow this. There are other problems with that too, not just picking a starting point.

Some are situation specific. You often see 4 square feet per chicken in the coop. That works pretty well for most people that are keeping a small flock of all hens that are fully integrated, it can be overkill in warmer climates, but if you plan on integrating or having a broody hen raise chicks with the flock it can be tight. But that can be mitigated by having a lot of room outside and the climate where they can be outside practically all day every day.

I have a pre-laying flock of 14 hens, and 2 roosters.

No you don't. You have a flock with immature cockerels and immature pullets. The behaviors of immature pullets and cockerels can be quite different from the behaviors of mature hens and roosters. Each chicken has its own personality, some never grow up. Shoehorning as many as you can into a small space can make behavioral problems worse or even cause some. From what I've seen the personality of the girls has an effect on how it works out too. I don't necessarily blame the cockerel for everything, but eating him will solve a lot of problems.

What people are calling the jerk phase is when the hormones of puberty take over. This can affect different cockerels at different ages and can be a lot stronger in some than others. What usually happens is that the hormones drives the cockerel to become the dominant flock master. He may fight other cockerels. He typically tries to mate the pullets, older hens too of you have them. With your pullets he is not trying to fertilize the non-existent eggs. The mating act is an act of dominance, the one on bottom is accepting the dominance of the one on top, either willingly or forcibly, and often temporarily. When they are all mature it is often willingly. When they are immature it is usually by force. Sometimes with juveniles it isn't that bad but quite often it can be really hard to watch. It is often violent. I've never had a pullet injured during that phase and I average around 20 pullets per year, but every three or four years it gets violent enough for me to separate out several boys until they reach butcher age. I do have over 3,000 square feet outside and three different coops/shelters with runs I can keep them in. Not everyone has that type of space.

I kind of want to keep both because I've heard their less aggressive towards humans if they have to worry about each other.

I personally put no faith in that.

The cockerels can go through puberty at different ages. The more mature will dominate until the other grows up enough to challenge. Sometimes there never is a challenge, one remains dominant. Sometimes it is a fight to the death, but that's kind of rare if you have enough room. Individual personality makes a difference there. Sometimes if you have enough room they each claim a territory and attract their own harem, staying out of eyesight of each other. Sometimes they work together to manage the flock. They will know which is dominant but sometimes those partnerships can be strange.

One hard thing about this is that the dominant one can suppress the behaviors of the more submissive. This can be behaviors toward the girls or toward humans. Sometimes the rivalry can stir up the dominant one. The sweet submissive one may become an absolute brute when you take the dominant one away and give him the flock. You never know how they will when the flock makeup changes.

What should I do as far as keeping or culling?

Since your goals include hatching I'd keep the one you like most. You are more likely to like his offspring. He is still quite young and you could change your mind or you could wind up not liking either. As long as you don't run into problems there is nothing wrong with keeping both until they give you a reason not to. You need to follow your goals, not mine. Mine will be different from yours. I often suggest you base your decisions on what you see, not what some stranger over the internet like me tells you that you will see. I don't know what you will see but a flock of one rooster and 14 hens would give you a very nice flock and should meet your goals.

 

[infinitepizza]

Perhaps you would be interested in this, perhaps not, but as you have young children I would feel negligent for not adding this. Most inexperienced people misinterpret aggressive behavior until they have an attack. Most inexperienced people vastly underestimate how violent an attack can be.

Things to look for showing signs of possible aggression in a cockerel:

• flapping his wings at you, puffing up big when you come into the coop/run area
• walking toward you when you are bringing food, this appears friendly, but indicates no respect for your space. These are not like puppies or kittens.
• Jumping up on something to be as tall as you or just taller
• Excessive crowing when you enter the set up
• Stink eye - he is glaring at you
• Sneaking behind you, if you turn suddenly, he will pretend he wasn't, if you don't, often times this is where the first attack comes from
• A lot of roosters are opportunist, so they often will attack children first, then women, and finally men. So be aware - how he acts around you, is not how he maybe acting around kids. Roosters have ruined the whole chicken experience for a lot of kids.
• If kids and birds share a yard, their natural playing and outside voices can be upsetting to an aggressive rooster.

Good signs:

• He naturally moves away from you, casually keeping about 4-6 feet away from you.
• He approaches slowly, and calls and tidbits the hens to food
• He is not aggressive with the hens
• He keeps the girls together when free ranging (this is an exceptional rooster, but such a pleasure to have)
• He checks out nests, tries and find or create a wonderful nest for his girls.
• He escorts them into lay
• He calls alarms when predators approach
• He is good with chicks

Mrs K

This information is very useful. I'll be looking for the signs. Thank you!

 

[infinitepizza]

Hi, welcome to the forum from Louisiana. Glad you joined.


You can read a lot on here. Some people are so stiff and rigid in their belief in magic numbers you read on here that they'd get a hernia if they burped. Some of us are more relaxed. I'm talking about things like square feet per chicken, linear feet of roost per chicken, and brooder temperatures as well as boy to girl ratio. The reality is that we keep them in so many different conditions and climates, for different goals, with different flock make-ups and management techniques, different breeds (which can mean vastly different sizes of the individual birds), and many more differences that there is no one answer that fits us all. The climate difference in Fargo, North Dakota and Miami, Florida can make a difference in many of these.

I understand that people just starting out need some help. They don't have the experience to base anything on. Some of these numbers you see are general guidelines. They are intended to keep most people safe even if they do a few things wrong. An example of that is brooder temperature. You may read to start with a certain temperature (I've seen 90 F, 95 F, and 100 F all given as a starting point) and drop it 5 degrees per week. The intent here is no matter how horrible your brooder is you will be OK temperaturewise as long as you follow this. There are other problems with that too, not just picking a starting point.

Some are situation specific. You often see 4 square feet per chicken in the coop. That works pretty well for most people that are keeping a small flock of all hens that are fully integrated, it can be overkill in warmer climates, but if you plan on integrating or having a broody hen raise chicks with the flock it can be tight. But that can be mitigated by having a lot of room outside and the climate where they can be outside practically all day every day.


No you don't. You have a flock with immature cockerels and immature pullets. The behaviors of immature pullets and cockerels can be quite different from the behaviors of mature hens and roosters. Each chicken has its own personality, some never grow up. Shoehorning as many as you can into a small space can make behavioral problems worse or even cause some. From what I've seen the personality of the girls has an effect on how it works out too. I don't necessarily blame the cockerel for everything, but eating him will solve a lot of problems.

What people are calling the jerk phase is when the hormones of puberty take over. This can affect different cockerels at different ages and can be a lot stronger in some than others. What usually happens is that the hormones drives the cockerel to become the dominant flock master. He may fight other cockerels. He typically tries to mate the pullets, older hens too of you have them. With your pullets he is not trying to fertilize the non-existent eggs. The mating act is an act of dominance, the one on bottom is accepting the dominance of the one on top, either willingly or forcibly, and often temporarily. When they are all mature it is often willingly. When they are immature it is usually by force. Sometimes with juveniles it isn't that bad but quite often it can be really hard to watch. It is often violent. I've never had a pullet injured during that phase and I average around 20 pullets per year, but every three or four years it gets violent enough for me to separate out several boys until they reach butcher age. I do have over 3,000 square feet outside and three different coops/shelters with runs I can keep them in. Not everyone has that type of space.


I personally put no faith in that.

The cockerels can go through puberty at different ages. The more mature will dominate until the other grows up enough to challenge. Sometimes there never is a challenge, one remains dominant. Sometimes it is a fight to the death, but that's kind of rare if you have enough room. Individual personality makes a difference there. Sometimes if you have enough room they each claim a territory and attract their own harem, staying out of eyesight of each other. Sometimes they work together to manage the flock. They will know which is dominant but sometimes those partnerships can be strange.

One hard thing about this is that the dominant one can suppress the behaviors of the more submissive. This can be behaviors toward the girls or toward humans. Sometimes the rivalry can stir up the dominant one. The sweet submissive one may become an absolute brute when you take the dominant one away and give him the flock. You never know how they will when the flock makeup changes.


Since your goals include hatching I'd keep the one you like most. You are more likely to like his offspring. He is still quite young and you could change your mind or you could wind up not liking either. As long as you don't run into problems there is nothing wrong with keeping both until they give you a reason not to. You need to follow your goals, not mine. Mine will be different from yours. I often suggest you base your decisions on what you see, not what some stranger over the internet like me tells you that you will see. I don't know what you will see but a flock of one rooster and 14 hens would give you a very nice flock and should meet your goals.

Thank you for contributing your advice. I definitely have lots to learn. I have seen the nicer cockerel grab some hens behind the head a few times, and he's starting to do a weird side-step thing around the hens sometimes. He's the one currently in charge, but the other cockerel (the one I don't like as much) challenges him from time to time, always backing down eventually.

I'm still undecided what to do, but I think perhaps getting rid of the less-liked male is best, for now. Thanks again.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Mating Between Concenting Adults

1. The rooster dances to show his intentions. He lowers a wing and sort of sidesteps around the hen.

2. The hen squats. This gets her body on the ground so the rooster's weight goes into the ground through her body instead of just her legs. Most roosters of the same breed as the hen are heavier than the hen so the squat is nature's way of protecting her legs and joints.

3. The rooster hops on and grabs the back of her head. This head grab helps line him up right and helps him keep his balance, but the main purpose is to tell her to raise her tail up out of the way so he can hit the target. Without the head grab he would not be able to get to the target so there would be no fertile eggs.

4. The rooster touches her vent with his. That deposits the sperm. This may take a couple of seconds or may be over in a flash.

5. The rooster hops off, his part is done. The hen stands up, fluffs up her feathers, and shakes. This fluffy shake gets the sperm in a special container where it can stay viable from a week to maybe three weeks.

It doesn't always go this way between adults. Sometimes the rooster does not dance but just grabs and hops on. No harm no foul, but it shows he does not have the self-confidence he should. Sometimes the hen runs away instead of squatting. The rooster may let her go or he may give chase. If he chases the hen may squat, she just wanted to know he was serious. He may stop the chase pretty quickly and let her go. He may chase her down and force her. As long as she squats and is not injured it's all OK. Even when he forces her it is usually not very violent.

You do not have consenting adults, they are juveniles. The cockerel doesn't have much control of himself. The girls are usually not going to cooperate. He is grabbing the head to control her, not the same thing as the head grab to get her to raise her tail. It can be violent but it usually isn't as bad as it looks. Still, you are looking at them, I'm not.

I did not see anything in your post that raises a flag for me. I generally like the early maturing, the one you like. I don't always get it right but the early maturing seem to have more self-confidence, so when they and the girls get older he can attract them with his magnificence. It means he may not have to use as much force to win them over later.

 

[infinitepizza]

Mating Between Concenting Adults

1. The rooster dances to show his intentions. He lowers a wing and sort of sidesteps around the hen.

2. The hen squats. This gets her body on the ground so the rooster's weight goes into the ground through her body instead of just her legs. Most roosters of the same breed as the hen are heavier than the hen so the squat is nature's way of protecting her legs and joints.

3. The rooster hops on and grabs the back of her head. This head grab helps line him up right and helps him keep his balance, but the main purpose is to tell her to raise her tail up out of the way so he can hit the target. Without the head grab he would not be able to get to the target so there would be no fertile eggs.

4. The rooster touches her vent with his. That deposits the sperm. This may take a couple of seconds or may be over in a flash.

5. The rooster hops off, his part is done. The hen stands up, fluffs up her feathers, and shakes. This fluffy shake gets the sperm in a special container where it can stay viable from a week to maybe three weeks.

It doesn't always go this way between adults. Sometimes the rooster does not dance but just grabs and hops on. No harm no foul, but it shows he does not have the self-confidence he should. Sometimes the hen runs away instead of squatting. The rooster may let her go or he may give chase. If he chases the hen may squat, she just wanted to know he was serious. He may stop the chase pretty quickly and let her go. He may chase her down and force her. As long as she squats and is not injured it's all OK. Even when he forces her it is usually not very violent.

You do not have consenting adults, they are juveniles. The cockerel doesn't have much control of himself. The girls are usually not going to cooperate. He is grabbing the head to control her, not the same thing as the head grab to get her to raise her tail. It can be violent but it usually isn't as bad as it looks. Still, you are looking at them, I'm not.

I did not see anything in your post that raises a flag for me. I generally like the early maturing, the one you like. I don't always get it right but the early maturing seem to have more self-confidence, so when they and the girls get older he can attract them with his magnificence. It means he may not have to use as much force to win them over later.

Thanks for sharing that. I didn't know there was so much to it!

Yesterday I actually observed one of the males mate with a female, right in front of me. She sounded a bit distressed, but he got the job done. I assume that means he is sexually mature, and perhaps she is too?

He is the fastest-maturing one--and calmer than the other. As of yet, his aggression toward me has not increased; but by some of the comments on here, I suppose he could be a ticking time bomb. I like the idea of keeping him, I don't like how he crows at 4 in the morning, and I don't want to endanger my family (especially kids). Jury's still out what to do with them all.

 

[dekel18042]

I have heard that you need a ratio of 8-10 hens for a rooster, but is that PER ROOSTER, or just a recommendation to have a small flock if you decide to have a rooster? Here's my dilemma:

I have a pre-laying flock of 14 hens, and 2 roosters. Hatched all at the same time. I like one of the roosters. The other I don't like as much. If I get rid of the one, then it's 14 hens for one rooster--in violation of the ratio. What would be the downsides of that?

If I keep both roosters, then it's 7 hens per rooster--also in violation of the ratio. I kind of want to keep both because I've heard their less aggressive towards humans if they have to worry about each other.

What should I do as far as keeping or culling? Please help, as I've never kept roosters before.

Oh and I'm new and happy to be here!

Cockerels mature before the pullets and tend to be real jerks at first. They settle down, especially if raised with older chickens who can put them in their place.
I've found the worst most aggressive roosters are ones raised with same age chicks only and are the only rooster or so and start at the top of the flock and tend to stay there. They don't come up through the flock which I feel gives a more balanced rooster.
In your case, if you don't have older hens, I wouldn't keep either rooster, but then when your hens start laying, look around for someone who has an adult rooster with a nice temperament.
Perhaps a neighboring farmer has too many or someone in 4-H has more boys than he needs or perhaps someone has a rooster, tried and true but wants to bring new blood in so doesn't need the older rooster.
The temperament of these boys is known and you might be doing yourself a favor by getting one of them.
I have a small farm flock and only raise a very few new babies. I tend to keep the nice boys, who get along well in the flock and are not people aggressive, until someone is looking for a flock rooster.
I would never pass on a people aggressive rooster, so this may be a way for you to get a good one.