Should I warn neighbor that dog might get shot?

[kodster]

If possible, I would take it to animal authorities. I wouldn't kill an animal just because I dont know who owns it.

For sure, I dont consider a dog, fox or coyote any greater or more important than a duck or chicken.
I would defend my birds if being actively attacked. I wouldnt feel good about it, but I have already made it clear that this is my view. But a dog being on my property? Trying to get into the duck pen? No. I'd do my very best to catch or scare the dog away and then do what it takes to prevent it happening again.

Actually, I do the very same thing... if I catch a dog on my property, I try to shoo it off the property, intimidate it to leave. But if I FIND a dog inside my run, or my flock IS being attacked, then I will take steps to eliminate the predator, because once it tastes blood, it goes back to its natural instincts as a predator. There's no stopping it except by execution.

 

[Geena]

because once it tastes blood, it goes back to its natural instincts as a predator. There's no stopping it except by execution.

That's just a silly old wives tale.

 

[kodster]

That's just a silly old wives tale.

Uh, no it's not, for those of us living in reality. They will keep coming back, once they taste the blood of their prey. Those of us who have actually GONE through this, know this to be a fact. Otherwise, I would have never said it.

 

[Geena]

Uh, no it's not, for those of us living in reality. They will keep coming back, once they taste the blood of their prey. Those of us who have actually GONE through this, know this to be a fact. Otherwise, I would have never said it.

I do actually live in reality as well. I have dealt with dogs as pets and as predators my entire life. Tasting blood does not magically change a dog's brain chemistry. They might kill something and think - that was fun- and want to do it again, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with "tasting blood". People raw feed dogs all the time without them somehow turning into serial killers. Also dogs can be trained not to harm things, even when they have done so before.

 

[Folly's place]

There's difference here in defining 'reality'. @kodster is discussing the livestock owner's problem, with a strange dog invading as a predator. @Geena is discussing the dog from a responsible pet owner's point of view, retraining a dog's poor behaviors. If the livestock owner has a dog repeatedly coming to cause harm, there's obviously not a responsible dog owner involved.
I've been on both sides of this issue. Responsible animal owners work hard and spend $$ to keep their critters at home, and expect others to do the same. And if someone gets out in spite of everything, takes responsibility for any damages, and works to prevent escapes in the future.
Mary

 

[kodster]

I do actually live in reality as well. I have dealt with dogs as pets and as predators my entire life. Tasting blood does not magically change a dog's brain chemistry. They might kill something and think - that was fun- and want to do it again, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with "tasting blood". People raw feed dogs all the time without them somehow turning into serial killers. Also dogs can be trained not to harm things, even when they have done so before.

Raw feed does not equate to a dog's predator instincts, so please, don't equate the two as being the same thing. The raw feed is prepped so that it is no longer 'prey' to a dog, so they don't associate the food with the actual animal, as well as the actions of obtaining that food, associated with hunting that animal, the hormones that surge through a dog's body when they are on the prowl, attack, and killing. Not all dogs experience this, just like not all humans do, but there are psychopathic humans that get a thrill out of killing another human, or animal that cannot defend itself against them. The same goes for the canine world.

It is VERY hard to retrain a dog, once it happens. Just like it is impossible to do for a human psychopath... which is why we put them in prison for the remainder of their lives, to protect society. Some are put to death, which is why we have capital punishment.

I have trained personal protection dogs, so I know, they can be trained appropriately. I have also trained search and rescue dogs. All of them were Rottweilers. My last one was actually a livestock guardian dog. He wouldn't attack my flock, or the birds, individually, but if one got out and I couldn't capture it to return the bird to its sanctuary, where it was safe, he would help me flush the bird out so I could capture it. He never harmed the bird. But you have to know the dog's personality, on an individual basis. Individual dogs can be threats.

I have a friend who just had to put his 5-month-old pup that he was training to be an LGD down because he went rogue on him. The older LGD he had is the one that attacked the pup, because the pup was attacking, and trying to kill, the goat on the property. The older LGD was responding to her training to protect the livestock, and she perceived the pup while attacking the goat and the sounds that the goat was making, as a threat and responded appropriately. My friend said that when he had to put his pup down, himself, on his property, he no longer saw 'Bandit', but a feral dog, in the dog's eyes. This same friend also shot and killed his neighbor's dog, after multiple warnings to the owner, and multiple attacks on his alpacas, on his property. The dog wouldn't stop. The dog was paired up with a Great Pyrenees, but the Great Pyrenees wasn't shot and killed, because they had it on video... the Great Pyrenees was reacting to the predator dog's actions and joining in, but once the predator dog was out of the picture, the Great Pyrenees was no longer a threat to the livestock. The pack mentality was gone. The owner of the dog was upset but realized that it was the only outcome plausible, as they couldn't control the dog's actions.

 

[kodster]

There's difference here in defining 'reality'. @kodster is discussing the livestock owner's problem, with a strange dog invading as a predator. @Geena is discussing the dog from a responsible pet owner's point of view, retraining a dog's poor behaviors. If the livestock owner has a dog repeatedly coming to cause harm, there's obviously not a responsible dog owner involved.
I've been on both sides of this issue. Responsible animal owners work hard and spend $$ to keep their critters at home, and expect others to do the same. And if someone gets out in spite of everything, takes responsibility for any damages, and works to prevent escapes in the future.
Mary

Exactly. I've owned dogs all my life. If I had one that was killing someone's livestock, you can be sure that dog wouldn't be around long enough to do it again. That's the responsible dog ownership I know and respect. But there are people out there who just WON'T take the responsibility and let their dogs run free, believing that it's the dog's natural instincts to do so. Yes, it is, but if it's your job as a responsible dog owner to make sure that it DOESN'T do it!

 

[Geena]

The same goes for the canine world.

You are comparing apples and oranges. A dog that kills livestock is not a psychopath, it's simply an animal that is following it's natural instincts.

No doubt loose dogs are a very serious threat to livestock and I don't blame anyone who shoots such a dog.
I just don't like ridiculous falsehoods being spread around as if they were facts.

It is VERY hard to retrain a dog, once it happens

Actually it's not that hard if you know what you are doing, I've trained many, many dogs around livestock and other pet animals.

So what happens if your "personal protection" dog bites someone? Do you then have to shoot the dog because it has "tasted blood" and will go on a psychopathic human killing spree?

I've also heard that if you feed one of these after midnight

they turn into this

 

[Folly's place]

Again, semantics at play.
I have met 'psycho' dogs, and puppies that weren't wired right, who just can't be fixed.
This is not usually the story with dogs who attack livestock, because they are loose, and/ or haven't been trained to avoid this behavior.
The dog owner needs to train the dog to ignore the critters, and of course keep the dog at home. Ignoring or protecting the critters at home may also not translate into ignoring the same species on other's property.
Mary

 

[kodster]

Again, semantics at play.
I have met 'psycho' dogs, and puppies that weren't wired right, who just can't be fixed.
This is not usually the story with dogs who attack livestock, because they are loose, and/ or haven't been trained to avoid this behavior.
The dog owner needs to train the dog to ignore the critters, and of course keep the dog at home. Ignoring or protecting the critters at home may also not translate into ignoring the same species on other's property.
Mary

Thank you. Absolutely the truth.