Should I warn neighbor that dog might get shot?

[BelovedBirds]

My friend ended up having to put the pup down, because she injured the pup so badly that it was the only humane thing to do, and that's when my friend realized that he didn't see the pup's personality in his eyes anymore... he saw the feral instincts, the 'wild' dog in those eyes. The dog had gone completely over to his native instincts and was no longer domesticated.

I'm sorry but this is absolutely ridiculous.
And yeah, no animal that has been brutally injured to near death is going to have the same docile playful puppy look in his eyes. He must've been terrified and in agony. He was in play and predatory mode and then in fight for life mode.

The animal didnt suddenly lose all sense of reason, or domestication. That isnt how it works.

 

[kodster]

I'm sorry but this is absolutely ridiculous.
And yeah, no animal that has been brutally injured to near death is going to have the same docile playful puppy look in his eyes. He must've been terrified and in agony. He was in play and predatory mode and then in fight for life mode.

The animal didnt suddenly lose all sense of reason, or domestication. That isnt how it works.

The pup was NOT 'in play AND predatory mode'. You have one or the other, but not both at the same time. You can see the transition of what the pup was doing, yourself... He's Bandit on the youtube channel, AdlerFarms. You can see the dog over several videos as he grew from six weeks to five, almost six months. When the animal he was attacking was screaming in terror, then that's NOT 'play'. That is an animal who is terrified of losing his life at the jaws of a predator, and the dog IS the predator. It turns out the pup was doing the same thing to the rest of the livestock on the farm, as well, since the demeanor of the livestock has changed since the pup was removed... they are relaxed. Noticeably so. The only one who isn't relaxed is the LGD that was being bullied by the pup as well, over food, and she has become very protective over her food, compared to what she was at her previous home, since living with the pup. That was a new 'learned' behavior as a result of the pup being aggressive towards the food. They were fighting over it. She lost a lot of weight, as a result. Now, my friend has young boys, one who is just turning four years old. He's been around the older LGD for the last two years, so he's friends with the dog. She considers him a part of her 'pack'. He's young enough that he wouldn't understand why he can't be around the dog when she's around food, now, when he used to feed her. He would get bitten. So, that is a primary concern of my friend in regards to the dog he has raised for two years, and then moved to a new environment. Not all dogs can handle these transitions. I know from my own childhood experience. My parents had a boxer that they owned and raised, and then we moved to a new house. The dog just couldn't adjust, and they had to rehome her. Fortunately, the new home was with an older, retired couple who had the time to be with her, and spoiled her rotten. She was happier. Sometimes, you do what is necessary for the animal's health and well-being.

 

[kodster]

Honestly? I'm tired of all of you 'do-gooders' who think that we should just let 'dogs be dogs', at the cost of other animals' lives. I live in reality, I understand human and animal behavior better than most do. I observe and learn from those behaviors, so when I see behaviors that reflect the natural instincts of these animals, I can adjust the training methodologies so I get the desired results of compatibility with other animals and humans. I can understand how they interact with each other, and know what would be their instinctive behavior, to prevent what would happen that started this whole conversation in this original post. Prevention is the best solution, so understanding how an animal is going to react is the best option.

And sometimes... the best solution when nothing else works? Re-home, or execution. Sometimes, re-homing is not an option, as is the case where you don't own the predator and it belongs to someone else. Dispatching the animal is not a legal hassle worth it, but when you warn the owner that it is a consequence of failing to control THEIR animal, it gives you no other option if the owner fails to do his/her job as a responsible dog owner. I'm not afraid to do it, but only as a last resort, when all else has failed. I can't retrain someone else's dog.

 

[BelovedBirds]

The pup was NOT 'in play AND predatory mode'. You have one or the other, but not both at the same time. You can see the transition of what the pup was doing, yourself... He's Bandit on the youtube channel, AdlerFarms. You can see the dog over several videos as he grew from six weeks to five, almost six months. When the animal he was attacking was screaming in terror, then that's NOT 'play'.

It absolutely is for the dog, cats more often play with their prey, but dogs are capable of the same. When mine have caught birds, its always been play, excitement, mixed with predatory instincts and then obviously eating said prey.

Some dogs go after animals more aggressively, I've seen that too. But its never some malicious switch of which the animal loses all domestication and sense of reason.
That's just an incredibly ignorant myth originating from someone who doesn't understand how a dog's mind works. In the moment they may become out of control, but they aren't permanently ruined.

Again, I'm not saying here that the dog is in the right, or innocent, or that killing them shouldnt be an option. I'm simply saying that tasting blood doesnt turn a dog rabid. They CAN be retrained.

 

[BelovedBirds]

Honestly? I'm tired of all of you 'do-gooders' who think that we should just let 'dogs be dogs', at the cost of other animals' lives.

Literally no one is saying that here. We've said again and again that sometimes killing the predator when it is actively attacking your animals is sometimes the only thing you can do. Sometimes maybe it is possible to catch, or scare the dog away. But sometimes, it is a decision that has to be made. We've said this all along.

The only thing we are objecting to is "SSS" or leaving the animal alive but injured in severe pain. Or shooting the animal for simply being on your property. That is all we are against.

This debate has long past reached its conclusion.

 

[kodster]

It absolutely is for the dog, cats more often play with their prey, but dogs are capable of the same. When mine have caught birds, its always been play, excitement, mixed with predatory instincts and then obviously eating said prey.

Some dogs go after animals more aggressively, I've seen that too. But its never some malicious switch of which the animal loses all domestication and sense of reason.
That's just an incredibly ignorant myth originating from someone who doesn't understand how a dog's mind works. In the moment they may become out of control, but they aren't permanently ruined.

Again, I'm not saying here that the dog is in the right, or innocent, or that killing them shouldnt be an option. I'm simply saying that tasting blood doesnt turn a dog rabid. They CAN be retrained.

If it's YOUR dog, yes, it is POSSIBLE, but NOT likely to be successful, for very long, to retrain them. That's the experience of many. You can NEVER trust the dog to not revert EVER, once they have tasted the blood of the animal that they took as prey (which is why I corrected Geena with her 'raw food' premise). Look, I've trained dogs in all sorts of capacities since 1986. I'm going on YEARS of experience here, for my base of knowledge. I've worked with my dogs to know what they are capable of, and I never relax around them to not start going with what they came from... undomesticated canine species. Anyone who does, are complete fools.

 

[BelovedBirds]

If it's YOUR dog, yes, it is POSSIBLE, but NOT likely to be successful, for very long, to retrain them. That's the experience of many. You can NEVER trust the dog to not revert EVER, once they have tasted the blood of the animal that they took as prey (which is why I corrected Geena with her 'raw food' premise). Look, I've trained dogs in all sorts of capacities since 1986. I'm going on YEARS of experience here, for my base of knowledge. I've worked with my dogs to know what they are capable of, and I never relax around them to not start going with what they came from... undomesticated canine species. Anyone who does, are complete fools.

You keep saying that you have experience training dogs. I'm sorry but that doesnt mean much, considering that so many (even well known) dog trainers are teaching falsehoods or training with outdated abusive methods.
Unless you have an actual qualification in dog psychology and wellbeing. Do you?

Now whether you want to trust a dog who has previously attacked an animal, thats your choice. And I would agree, I am always careful with my rescue dogs who have less than ideal backgrounds and previous behavioural issues. But that said, it doesnt mean training is unlikely to succeed.

A prey drive does not make an animal feral.

Do you know how sheepdogs are trained? Many collies actually attack sheep in training, which is why they're generally trained from a young age in a controlled environment. This is because their instinct to drive prey is what the shepherd relies on. Now, the farmer doesnt stop the dog and say "too bad, you've attacked the sheep. Now I have to put you down because you're no longer domesticated".
No.
He continues disciplining the dog until it respects boundaries and listens to all the commands.

This may not be everyone's experience, but I've known and observed sheepdogs in training and from what I've seen and heard this is a great example.
Dogs don't go feral because they tasted the blood of their prey.

 

[kodster]

Shall I say that my dogs were trained right alongside K-9 dogs that are trained for police departments? At the same training facility? What I can say is this.. those officers' dogs AREN'T trained by the police officers, themselves. The owner of the facility trains the dogs, for the departments. So, my dogs were actually superior to those dogs, because we became a team from the age of the pups' 8 weeks of age when they were brought home. Now, once I became a breeder of the breed I raised and trained, they were learning as soon as their eyes were open, the basics. With love and care, because puppies don't need to be 'blown out' with excessive abuse, as you would say is 'outdated abusive methods'. That point I agree with. It's harnessing the natural instincts of the dogs in their training, and if they aren't allowed to use it, then you'll have no long-term success in ANY training. That's why my dogs weren't ALL personal protection dogs, some were search and rescue, and some were livestock guardian dogs (LGDs). I observed their natural proclivities and gave them a means of outlets to do something they loved to do, naturally.

So, how many sheep did the sheep farmer lose as a result of the training of his dog(s)? NONE, because he didn't allow the dog to go that far. Nipping at the heels of the sheep to drive them is completely different.

 

[Geena]

I'm not a stupid animal owner like Geena is trying to make me out to be.

Hey now, I don't know anything about you, nor did I ever say anything about you.

You seem to want to turn this into some kind prolonged argument where we keep going over and over the same points again and again. Sorry, I'm just not into it, there's absolutely nothing to be gained by it. Please leave my name out of any future tirades.

 

[kodster]

They're your comments, own them. I was merely referring to them as references. You didn't have to respond. So long, folks!