Should ideal poultry be accountable?

[dheltzel]

Most of the customers of the large hatcheries don't care too much about the specific genetics of the birds. But a few do, they learn about such things either from other people they trust, or experience. I bought some "Ameraucanas" from a local lady about 3 years ago that turned out to be very "non standard" (aka Easter Eggers). I paid a high price for those chicks, but count it as an inexpensive education. They were pretty, in their own way, but not what I was expecting. At the same time I bought 6 BBS Ams from another local breeder. I understood they were straight run, but still felt somehow cheated when I got 5 Ameraucana roos and a BCM roo, not a single pullet. They were decent roos and I did use them in future breeding, but again a great education. The next time I bought Ameraucana chicks, I bought a lot more to ensure better results.

It can be hard to find local "chicken people" who know the score with the various sources, but it's worth seeking them out. The state threads here on BYC are great for that. I pride myself in being able to locate almost any breed for my friends and customers here in SE PA. I know who is looking for what and often send links when I find a deal they should look at.

I have been specifically bothered by the lack of real standard bred Ameraucanas (which I really, really like) in my area, so I took it upon myself to buy a bunch of high quality stock. It was a huge investment, I might not turn a profit, but it doesn't matter, I love those birds and I intend to make these great birds available to local people at an affordable price so they can enjoy them also. My chicks are more expensive than the hatchery "Ameracanas", and that is by design, if they want cheap they should buy elsewhere, but if they want nice (and I mean really NICE) from a reputable, local breeder, they can get them from me. I fully stand behind my chicks because it is super important to me that every customer has a good experience with their chickens.

Here is my best advice about buying stock:
1. Research your sources - check their reputation and their level of knowledge
2. Buy local if you can, but be prepared to get them shipped if you can't find what you want locally
3. If you intend to breed, buy the best stock to start with. The total costs of your project will be almost the same. The cost of stock to start with is usually only a tiny percent of the real total costs.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Most of the customers of the large hatcheries don't care too much about the specific genetics of the birds. But a few do, they learn about such things either from other people they trust, or experience. I bought some "Ameraucanas" from a local lady about 3 years ago that turned out to be very "non standard" (aka Easter Eggers). I paid a high price for those chicks, but count it as an inexpensive education. They were pretty, in their own way, but not what I was expecting. At the same time I bought 6 BBS Ams from another local breeder. I understood they were straight run, but still felt somehow cheated when I got 5 Ameraucana roos and a BCM roo, not a single pullet. They were decent roos and I did use them in future breeding, but again a great education. The next time I bought Ameraucana chicks, I bought a lot more to ensure better results.

It can be hard to find local "chicken people" who know the score with the various sources, but it's worth seeking them out. The state threads here on BYC are great for that. I pride myself in being able to locate almost any breed for my friends and customers here in SE PA. I know who is looking for what and often send links when I find a deal they should look at.

I have been specifically bothered by the lack of real standard bred Ameraucanas (which I really, really like) in my area, so I took it upon myself to buy a bunch of high quality stock. It was a huge investment, I might not turn a profit, but it doesn't matter, I love those birds and I intend to make these great birds available to local people at an affordable price so they can enjoy them also. My chicks are more expensive than the hatchery "Ameracanas", and that is by design, if they want cheap they should buy elsewhere, but if they want nice (and I mean really NICE) from a reputable, local breeder, they can get them from me. I fully stand behind my chicks because it is super important to me that every customer has a good experience with their chickens.

Here is my best advice about buying stock:
1. Research your sources - check their reputation and their level of knowledge
2. Buy local if you can, but be prepared to get them shipped if you can't find what you want locally
3. If you intend to breed, buy the best stock to start with. The total costs of your project will be almost the same. The cost of stock to start with is usually only a tiny percent of the real total costs.

Good advice.

SO far 3 out of 3 real Ameraucana for me were all boys, different sources even.

I too have been ripped off by people selling "Swedish Flower"... it was a nice $60 lesson, $20 per chick plus I drove my suburban 45 minutes each way..... After expressing to the people how excited I was to get such a nice rare breed "local", preserved by someone who cares about the quality. But now I know the truth and it is so much easier to discern the difference when talking to a breeder verses "back yard" breeder. And yes.... you often get what you pay for!

Second time around, same SFH chicks, different seller and location... I drove 2.5 hours each way (in my suburban, point being I pay $3.50/gal of gas so it wasn't cheap) and paid only $5 per chick. But the knowledge of the breed and breeding practice was much more open and clearly understood. And she had her parent stock on sight as well as knowing her original source. And she stated that she culls for defects, which is supremely important for quality. You can tell a lot about the hatchery by the pics they display of their flock. Drawn pictures, probably not their flock.

It's hard to wait to find a good source, but worth it in the end. Think of it this way... you can spend less $ to start with lower quality stock... but you may spend more time breeding towards what you want which in the end, time is $, to me.


That being said, I do enjoy my EE and will probably always have a couple in my flock. They have been a real mixed bag... usually flighty and not high volume or consistent layers. But still a lot of fun. My favorite thing about them is that even if similar, no two are exactly the same! I've had 2 that look similar to the one posted... but I bet side by side I could still tell them apart. Can't say that for my BR. Those get bands. And thus far haven't seen them be really aggressive in their flock. That's a plus for me. My Ameraucana have been very confident and not flighty at all.... but they've all been boys.

So I don't actually know if I will like the girls as much as I do the boys.

Now I'm afraid our local seller with good stock won't get back to me because they don't want me to possibly breed and compete for our small market. I don't want to though, I just like having nice quality stock, and her birds are beautiful! Hopefully I'm wrong and she will contact me back sometime this spring.

I mean if I really wanted to I could get stock from the same place she got hers.... but why not keep it local. Guess we will see.

Maybe she just doesn't have anything available right now.

Try not to let specifics keep you from enjoying your girls!

 

[junebuggena]

Ideal also describes their birds as 'multicolored'. This is probably the easiest way to distinguish Easter Egger from Ameraucana. Ameraucana ALWAYS have a color/variety specified, just like any other breed. No color/variety specified, it's an Easter Egger.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Agree with Junebuggena.... any breeder will KNOW what variety they are breeding.

Even MPC sells Blue Ameraucana... notice the difference in price between what they call Ameraucana verses their EE? $18.25 instead of $2.95.

https://www.mypetchicken.com/catalog/Blue-Egg-Layers-c88.aspx

Now you are armed with information though!

 

[BYC910]

Last year I purchased 10 ameracana chicks. I have raised them and now they are 7 months old, and laying. Now that I would like to incubate eggs, I have learned that they are in fact easter eggers and not pure ameracana chickens. Is ideal poultry responsible for this? They are selling eggers as ameracanas and making a profit. I don't appreciate being lied to.

Well in my opinion all the blame for this should be placed squarely on the shoulders of early Ameracana breeders who marketed them as Ameracanas . Then decided disinherit them by changing the SOP of the breed . Could you win this in a court of law maybe but not likely. But you are better off with Easter eggers anyway they most of the time lay a larger egg than the ameracanas and are a very pretty blue . As they have changed the SOP they have given up some of the egg color and size . the last ameracana eggs I ordered were near white and small , The blood lines came from some of the top breeders Of the Ameraucana Association . I figured they were pullet eggs and they have been laying for a year and the eggs are still small . Also the Easter eggers are more productive layers. I for one am disillusioned with the Ameraucanas and am thinking about dumping them. Also without a written guarantee you can't hold them accountable . While there is an association the chickens are not registered nor blood lines tracked other than by the breeders . You know these came from so in so's flock and these came from some other so in so's flock .

But there is an S.O.P. which makes it so they can change anything at any time and disinherit some more and yea ha we got more Easter eggers . Worse easter eggers that lay smaller eggs! . Raising chicken is a buyer beware market . So next breed or next purchase do your home work. I really don't want or mean to offend anyone but I'm sure I have please excuse me as this is just my opinion .

 

[Compton Farm]

I totally accept your opinion. I'm not offended or upset. I just can't seem to get all these standards and breed blood lines correct. And I'm not the only one.

 

[BYC910]

I totally accept your opinion. I'm not offended or upset. I just can't seem to get all these standards and breed blood lines correct. And I'm not the only one.

Rule # 1 a breeders name attached to a chicken does not make it a good chicken . When replacing my laying flock I was not on the game. I picked a local hatchery thinking I would see the adult birds before buying chicks . Not so at all told the chicks were show quality they weren't and were to high so I got more from my local feed store and was lied to again ordered Ameraucana got ee's ordered all pullets got 25% roosters . Spooned down that dose of my medicine and began to understand how big breeders and hatcheries worked . If possible always see the adult birds before buying offspring's. It takes a lot of work to promote and enhance top quality breeding stock and most people can never sell chickens for as much money as the have invested in them . Buy the body type you want not the breeders name. Livestock is a major investment invest wisely .

 

[dekel18042]

But you are better off with Easter eggers anyway they most of the time lay a larger egg than the ameracanas and are a very pretty blue .

Rule # 1 a breeders name attached to a chicken does not make it a good chicken . When replacing my laying flock I was not on the game. I picked a local hatchery thinking I would see the adult birds before buying chicks . Not so at all told the chicks were show quality they weren't and were to high so I got more from my local feed store and was lied to again ordered Ameraucana got ee's ordered all pullets got 25% roosters . Spooned down that dose of my medicine and began to understand how big breeders and hatcheries worked . If possible always see the adult birds before buying offspring's. It takes a lot of work to promote and enhance top quality breeding stock and most people can never sell chickens for as much money as the have invested in them . Buy the body type you want not the breeders name. Livestock is a major investment invest wisely .

Totally agree. To the original poster, unless you want to breed birds to sell for show there is no reason you can't breed Easter Eggers, sometimes called Americanas (Notice the difference in spelling) and sell them as long as you are honest about it.
Several years ago I had some EE's just for fun and we were looking for a heritage breed to raise. After several false starts we were disillusioned with the breeds we had chosen and while trying to figure out what we would really like it came to both my husband and myself at once. We really like Easter eggers. They are our favorite.
We have and have had both EE and Ameraucana and EE are still our favorites. While some of ours do lay a greenish (or olive or specikled) egg, we get our most beautiful blues from the EE's who are our best layers and lay a good sized egg. Last winter while the brown egg layers took an extended vacation and a few aren't laying yet, the EE's kept us in eggs. With EE's, if I am looking for something else, for example sex links, I can throw something else into the mix, get what I want and still have EE's.
Only if I wanted to show would I be raising Ameraucanas. Since you have them, you may as well enjoy the EE's. And if you get some Ameraucanas you may realize the EE's are still your favorites for several reasons. (Our EE's start laying younger than the Ameraucana and they lay more eggs, also.) Down the road you may find they are your favorites as we did, something we didn't expect.
The only negative thing I can say about my EE's is when I have hatched some I am ridiculously heavy on the cockerels. Wish I could figure a way to hatch a higher percentage of pullets.