Show me your bielefelder crosses.

[Fluster Cluck Acres]

This is definitely a tough one! Since it seems to be the only option, I’m thinking that Solo’s father is the bielefelder, and one of these two hens has the silver gene and is the mother:

I do think he is barred, it’s just weird how minimal it is.

I only hatched 1 egg from each of my mixed breed hens. Their moms are “known” based on which egg the chick hatched from. I’m pretty diligent, but a misidentified egg or an incubator mix-up is always possible. If I mixed up which chick came from which egg, I think this one is the only possibility:

Keebler:

I believe Keebler came from Garri:

Their personalities are similar: chill, laid-back. Their combs are similar: straight but small and tight to the head. This is the first chick Garri had with (I believe) the Biele rooster. Keebler’s size and coloration are why I assume the Biele father.

Do you think it's more likely that Keebler came from the black w/ gold hen? And that Solo could have come from this blue hen? It doesn’t make sense for any other mix ups because the pea combed chick had to come from the pea combed hen and the rose combed chick had to come from the rose combed hen.

Or is Solo not actually barred? He shed these feathers this morning. That little pointy one is (I’m pretty sure) from his hackles. Looking at the feathers individually, I'm not so sure I'm seeing barring.

Last thought- is it possible my Bielefelder rooster carries the silver gene but doesn’t express it? Or is that not a possibility? Chicken genetics are so fascinating and yet so confusing to me!

 

[RoostersAreAwesome]

I only hatched 1 egg from each of my mixed breed hens. Their moms are “known” based on which egg the chick hatched from. I’m pretty diligent, but a misidentified egg or an incubator mix-up is always possible. If I mixed up which chick came from which egg, I think this one is the only possibility:

Keebler:
View attachment 4154490View attachment 4154491
I believe Keebler came from Garri:
View attachment 4154492
Their personalities are similar: chill, laid-back. Their combs are similar: straight but small and tight to the head. This is the first chick Garri had with (I believe) the Biele rooster. Keebler’s size and coloration are why I assume the Biele father.

Do you think it's more likely that Keebler came from the black w/ gold hen? And that Solo could have come from this blue hen? It doesn’t make sense for any other mix ups because the pea combed chick had to come from the pea combed hen and the rose combed chick had to come from the rose combed hen.

Or is Solo not actually barred? He shed these feathers this morning. That little pointy one is (I’m pretty sure) from his hackles. Looking at the feathers individually, I'm not so sure I'm seeing barring.

View attachment 4154505View attachment 4154506

Last thought- is it possible my Bielefelder rooster carries the silver gene but doesn’t express it? Or is that not a possibility? Chicken genetics are so fascinating and yet so confusing to me!

A gold chicken can’t carry the silver gene without expressing it. Weirdly enough, a chicken who is pure for the silver gene can still have “gold” color— it’s just not sex-linked gold, it’s autosomal red. Stanley is one example of a chicken who is pure for silver but has a lot of autosomal red.

Keebler has barred hackles and the blue gene, so the father has to be bielefelder, and the mother has to be one of the blue hens.

I do think Solo is barred.

 

[J-Habs]

Please help me sex these Bielefelder crosses. I know a barred female bred to a non barred male makes it so you can sex them immediately, but these might be an exception. They are from a pure Bielefelder hen and a pure Novogen Brown rooster. They are about 24 hours in this picture. 2 pics each of 3 chicks.

 

[Fluster Cluck Acres]

Please help me sex these Bielefelder crosses. I know a barred female bred to a non barred male makes it so you can sex them immediately, but these might be an exception. They are from a pure Bielefelder hen and a pure Novogen Brown rooster. They are about 24 hours in this picture. 2 pics each of 3 chicks.

I'm inclined to guess that the chick with the darker stripe is female. This is based on my experience with mixed breed chicks from Biele hens- I found that the darker distinct chipmunk pattern indicated female. (But also my mix isn't the same as yours).

I'm also inclined to guess that the chick with the thinner, pale stripe is male. Again with my mixes, the males were generally lighter in color with less distinct or more muddled lines.

I'm stuck on the chick with the large, distinct, pale stripe. The distint lines lean female, but the lighter coloration leans male. You may have to wait until they start feathering out to know for sure.

Here's a post I made last year bout Biele mixes that might be helpful- https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/bielefelder-mix-chicks-auto-sexing.1620179/

 

[Fluster Cluck Acres]

Keebler has barred hackles and the blue gene, so the father has to be bielefelder, and the mother has to be one of the blue hens.

I do think Solo is barred.

Okay, I can't seem to let this go. @NatJ you've helped me figure out parentage in the past, maybe you can offer some insight into who Solo's parents could be?

Solo's dad could be either a Bielefelder or a silver w/ red & blue mixed breed rooster.

Solo's mom is supposed to be a black w/ gold hen (BCM x RIR) named Giblet.

The problem is that Solo has barring in his hackle feathers (pretty sure) so must have a barred parent, as well as silver feather colors, so must have a silver parent.

Since I'm diving down this rabbit hole, I went back through my hatching & brooding notes to see if there were any discrepancies or chances I mixed up the chicks/eggs, etc... and there is no chance that I mixed up which egg Solo came from. Solo's egg was placed in an incubator that had only Barnevelder eggs. I moved his egg specifically as I didn't want him to be mixed up w/ my BCM chicks. (I thought Solo might be black since mom was black). Solo hatched a day later than all the Barnevelders. Solo hatched out an almost solid silvery yellow- completely distinct from the Barnevelders and completely distinct from the other chicks in the hatch (everyone else had chipmunk stripes).

The only possibility for a mix up would be if the egg I collected did not come from the right hen. So... I scoured my records to see who else was laying at the time that I might have mixed up eggs with and might explain Solo's colors. The only other dark egg layers I have are all black with gold... half siblings to Giblet. So even if I mixed up the egg with Disco or Beastie, it wouldn't really change things. And those both have rose combs.

Now, I did have a Bielefelder hen that was laying at the time. Mind you, Gabriel's eggs (Bielefelder) and Giblet's eggs look NOTHING alike. Gabriel's eggs are light brown, or really more of a nude or flesh-tone color. Gabriel's eggs have a semi-gloss finish and are distinctly teardrop shaped. Whereas, Giblet's eggs are dark brown, often have a thick bloom, a true eggshell finish, and are torpedo shaped. Could I have mixed them up?

Doubtful, but maybe. The only discrepancy I could find was that the egg Solo hatched from weighed 60g. Giblet's eggs are larger and average 67g. Gabriel's eggs, at that time (she hadn't been laying very long), averaged 61 g. As a new layer, could Gabriel have laid an egg that was darker than usual and I thought it was a Giblet egg without the bloom? Still doubtful, but maybe.

Would it make sense for Solo to be the product of a silver rooster over a bielefelder hen? Would that explain his colorations? Would that account for how minimal the barring is? Are there any other explanations for his color?

 

[Sinadrea]

Hi,

So, I decided to let my broody marans hen, Minnie Mae, have 6 eggs yesterday. She has two of her own, two from my Whiting True Green (a red colored single combed olive egger) and two from my sicilian buttercup. Dad is a handsome bielefelder.

I know I'm counting my chickens here, (Not sure how serious Mae is about it, as she switched nests at least once today), but has anyone hatched any of these crosses, and what did they look like?

Bielefelder x Black Copper Marans
Bielefelder x Whiting true green (or any red bird really)
Bielefelder x Sicilian Buttercup

Lighter cinnamon and yellow one are Bielefelder and SGE mixes. So excited to see them get older.

 

[NatJ]

Please help me sex these Bielefelder crosses. I know a barred female bred to a non barred male makes it so you can sex them immediately, but these might be an exception. They are from a pure Bielefelder hen and a pure Novogen Brown rooster. They are about 24 hours in this picture. 2 pics each of 3 chicks.

Barring vs. not-barred is obvious on black chicks, because the ones with barring have a light spot on their head and the ones with no barring do not have that spot.

Unfortunately, on chicks that are mostly brown, the barring gene does not seem to always make a light head spot. (Obvious example: female Bielefelder chicks, that do have barring but do not usually show an obvious dot on their head.)

To make it more complicated, I'm pretty sure some of those chicks have the Dominant White gene. It turns black into white-- and on striped chicks like that, it turns the dark stripe on the back and head into a white or light stripe. That makes it even harder to tell if the barring gene is making any light dots on heads.

There is also a chance of some chicks having the silver gene, that turns gold/red/brown shades into white.

For the darker chicks, their first wing feathers will probably have a lot of black, so as they start to grow feathers you can look to see if they have white barring (male) or no barring (female.)

The lighter chicks will be harder, because they likely have white instead of black (Dominant White gene), and possible white instead of brown (silver gene). White barring is not going to be obvious on white feathers. Sometimes a chicken will have "ghost barring," which is basically white on white but has just a bit of color or has different textures or something, so it is visible from some angles. If you see that in any chicks, they are male too.

If you were to use your Bielefelder hens with a black rooster, you would get chicks that are easy to sex (black, with light dots on the heads of males). But the Novogen Brown rooster is bringing in genes that make the sexing difficult or maybe impossible in some cases. The sons do still have the barring gene, and the daughters do not, but you cannot easily tell which is which.

 

[NatJ]

Okay, I can't seem to let this go. @NatJ you've helped me figure out parentage in the past, maybe you can offer some insight into who Solo's parents could be?

Solo's dad could be either a Bielefelder or a silver w/ red & blue mixed breed rooster.

Solo's mom is supposed to be a black w/ gold hen (BCM x RIR) named Giblet.

The problem is that Solo has barring in his hackle feathers (pretty sure) so must have a barred parent, as well as silver feather colors, so must have a silver parent.

I read back through the thread and looked at the photos, and I'm not sure about Solo being barred. Those tail feathers look pretty un-barred to me.

If Solo is not barred, then his parents could be the hen you think, and the silver mixed breed rooster.

Since I'm diving down this rabbit hole, I went back through my hatching & brooding notes to see if there were any discrepancies or chances I mixed up the chicks/eggs, etc... and there is no chance that I mixed up which egg Solo came from. Solo's egg was placed in an incubator that had only Barnevelder eggs. I moved his egg specifically as I didn't want him to be mixed up w/ my BCM chicks. (I thought Solo might be black since mom was black). Solo hatched a day later than all the Barnevelders. Solo hatched out an almost solid silvery yellow- completely distinct from the Barnevelders and completely distinct from the other chicks in the hatch (everyone else had chipmunk stripes).

The only possibility for a mix up would be if the egg I collected did not come from the right hen. So... I scoured my records to see who else was laying at the time that I might have mixed up eggs with and might explain Solo's colors. The only other dark egg layers I have are all black with gold... half siblings to Giblet. So even if I mixed up the egg with Disco or Beastie, it wouldn't really change things. And those both have rose combs.

Now, I did have a Bielefelder hen that was laying at the time. Mind you, Gabriel's eggs (Bielefelder) and Giblet's eggs look NOTHING alike. Gabriel's eggs are light brown, or really more of a nude or flesh-tone color. Gabriel's eggs have a semi-gloss finish and are distinctly teardrop shaped. Whereas, Giblet's eggs are dark brown, often have a thick bloom, a true eggshell finish, and are torpedo shaped. Could I have mixed them up?

Doubtful, but maybe. The only discrepancy I could find was that the egg Solo hatched from weighed 60g. Giblet's eggs are larger and average 67g. Gabriel's eggs, at that time (she hadn't been laying very long), averaged 61 g. As a new layer, could Gabriel have laid an egg that was darker than usual and I thought it was a Giblet egg without the bloom? Still doubtful, but maybe.

That's a pretty thorough rundown of possibilities

Would it make sense for Solo to be the product of a silver rooster over a bielefelder hen? Would that explain his colorations? Would that account for how minimal the barring is? Are there any other explanations for his color?

If Solo does have barring, then yes I think that is the most likely cross: silver from one parent (mother) and barring from one parent (Bielefelder hen).

If you want to do a test, you could breed Solo to a hen that is not barred, who will produce chicks where barring would be obvious (a black hen or a BCM hen should work well.) Then hatch several chicks and see if you get any with barring. If the mother has no barring, but any chicks do, that would prove that Solo does have barring. But if he produces at least 7 chicks and none have barring, you can be 99% sure that he does not actually have barring.

Whether a test is worth the effort will depend on how much you really want to know. If the question will keep you awake at night for years to come, definitely test and see. If you're just mildly curious, you could decide that "sometimes chickens don't make sense" and leave it at that.