Show off your Delawares! *PIC HEAVY*

[LeslieDJoyce]

They should have roosts. Mine are set up @ 24" with bedding, and I have never had a problem. Somewhere between 16" and 24" should be fine. A 2" x 4" or 2" x 3" with the corners rounded off make good roosts for big birds.

I've lowered some of my roosts and it sure makes bedtime go more smoothly. The hatchery birds like to be up high, the Delawares not so much. We're shifting things around this year so the facilities are more tailored to the bigger birds. It seems there's always tweaking to do.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Here are some pics of the Dels we (Neal @1zooman12 ) and I are working with

...

This pullet is at my place and was the first test hatch bird.

I think she has the nicest shape.

 

[gjensen]

I've lowered some of my roosts and it sure makes bedtime go more smoothly. The hatchery birds like to be up high, the Delawares not so much. We're shifting things around this year so the facilities are more tailored to the bigger birds. It seems there's always tweaking to do.

Just make sure they are higher than your waterers etc. Otherwise they will perch there even more.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Just make sure they are higher than your waterers etc. Otherwise they will perch there even more.

I do have two cockerels that perch down on the cement blocks that hold the feed trough. Luckily they turn their bums away from the trough. They don't seem to enjoy perching on the waterers. One guy was perching on the edge of the dust bath before I lowered the roosts.

 

[Rod-T]

Anyone have deleware hatching eggs?

 

[gjensen]

I do have two cockerels that perch down on the cement blocks that hold the feed trough. Luckily they turn their bums away from the trough. They don't seem to enjoy perching on the waterers. One guy was perching on the edge of the dust bath before I lowered the roosts.

In the old days, breeders would warn about Rocks that were too big. Called them clumsy. Claimed they lost their agility, and athleticism. They continually cautioned against extremes on either end. They had a particular bird in mind.

Our Rocks trend too large today. Some can be what they warned against.

So, where I am going is there is a too big for our birds to. When normal roosts begin to be in the discussion of concern, then maybe they are too large on their legs.

A Delaware is not a big bird. They are medium large birds. A 12 pound Delaware is a third larger than they are meant to be. A 12 pound male is what the Rock breeders used to warn about and Rocks are meant to be larger birds.
When our birds begin to lose their fitness, they begin to lose their usefulness. They were farm birds when farm birds were farm birds.

This is not a critique. It is only related to the discussion we were having. My NHs have been too large.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

In the old days, breeders would warn about Rocks that were too big. Called them clumsy. Claimed they lost their agility, and athleticism. They continually cautioned against extremes on either end. They had a particular bird in mind.

Our Rocks trend too large today. Some can be what they warned against.

So, where I am going is there is a too big for our birds to. When normal roosts begin to be in the discussion of concern, then maybe they are too large on their legs.

A Delaware is not a big bird. They are medium large birds. A 12 pound Delaware is a third larger than they are meant to be. A 12 pound male is what the Rock breeders used to warn about and Rocks are meant to be larger birds.
When our birds begin to lose their fitness, they begin to lose their usefulness. They were farm birds when farm birds were farm birds.

This is not a critique. It is only related to the discussion we were having. My NHs have been too large.

I think this is very relevant. It's been something my breeding partner and I have talked about a lot. I gather there are some HUGE New Hampshires out there, and she breeds those, too.

We specifically discussed the issue of oversized birds here at my coop when we had our first breeding group team meeting with our Breeder/Judge consultant. I don't show (at least not yet), but I gather there is a trend toward larger and larger LF in the show ring, with the judges seeming to prefer the bigger birds when all else is relatively equal. So far, we've been NOT wanting to go too far over standard in our line. I don't have issues with that as so far my birds have been a tad on the small side -- my breeding partner has some bigger birds. But I can tell with both the pullets and cockerels this year I'm getting bigger birds too, so started wondering if I should cull the oversized birds.

I was running around playing hostess during the specific part of the discussion where oversized birds were discussed. The consultant seemed less concerned about it than we are ... says as long as the birds are sturdy enough to perform as described in the standard for their breed, oversized was okay in his opinion, as it shows so well, etc. Size is more of a priority with the bantams. But with the LF, he suggested perhaps improvements in feed ingredients and management strategies accounted for the size potential for the breeds being more fully realized, so it doesn't really alarm him. But I didn't really get to cross examine him on the topic (I intend to at some point

).

We have spent most of our assessment time going over the structural integrity of the birds. Wings & legs, keels, pelvic bones. The first thing he showed me was how to really look at the wing curve and joint for indications about the stability of the birds' frames. Very cool ... wings have been my priority as there were some birds with really weird wings in this line. And the way the wings feather makes them look very odd during certain points of their grow out, so we learned about wing feather growth, too. Sure enough, the ones we noted "bad" wings on also had knock knees. We marked them as culls right there. We found one in my flock with a bad keel, which he said could be a management issue due to the roosting situation, and that we should lower the roosts to eliminate that factor. I'm not sure I understood the connection between higher roosts and crooked keels, but I'd been planning to lower the roosts in the cockerel coop anyway. Now it's done.

Some of the roosts in our coops were installed as a "surprise" to me, and I thought they were too high from day one. During daylight hours, when the roosts are empty, the birds seem to have no trouble hopping up & down. But as the birds mature, and especially now at dusk, the birds have started fussing about going to bed. With the lower roosts in the cockerel cage, bedtime goes much more smoothly. I think I'm going to lower some of the roosts in the other coops where the birds have been fussy & slow at bedtime. I'd really rather have the birds sleeping on roosts than elsewhere. Less fussing means more cuddling, which will be good as the nights get cooler.

 

[finnfur]

I think this is very relevant. It's been something my breeding partner and I have talked about a lot. I gather there are some HUGE New Hampshires out there, and she breeds those, too.

We specifically discussed the issue of oversized birds here at my coop when we had our first breeding group team meeting with our Breeder/Judge consultant. I don't show (at least not yet), but I gather there is a trend toward larger and larger LF in the show ring, with the judges seeming to prefer the bigger birds when all else is relatively equal. So far, we've been NOT wanting to go too far over standard in our line. I don't have issues with that as so far my birds have been a tad on the small side -- my breeding partner has some bigger birds. But I can tell with both the pullets and cockerels this year I'm getting bigger birds too, so started wondering if I should cull the oversized birds.

I was running around playing hostess during the specific part of the discussion where oversized birds were discussed. The consultant seemed less concerned about it than we are ... says as long as the birds are sturdy enough to perform as described in the standard for their breed, oversized was okay in his opinion, as it shows so well, etc. Size is more of a priority with the bantams. But with the LF, he suggested perhaps improvements in feed ingredients and management strategies accounted for the size potential for the breeds being more fully realized, so it doesn't really alarm him. But I didn't really get to cross examine him on the topic (I intend to at some point

).

We have spent most of our assessment time going over the structural integrity of the birds. Wings & legs, keels, pelvic bones. The first thing he showed me was how to really look at the wing curve and joint for indications about the stability of the birds' frames. Very cool ... wings have been my priority as there were some birds with really weird wings in this line. And the way the wings feather makes them look very odd during certain points of their grow out, so we learned about wing feather growth, too. Sure enough, the ones we noted "bad" wings on also had knock knees. We marked them as culls right there. We found one in my flock with a bad keel, which he said could be a management issue due to the roosting situation, and that we should lower the roosts to eliminate that factor. I'm not sure I understood the connection between higher roosts and crooked keels, but I'd been planning to lower the roosts in the cockerel coop anyway. Now it's done.

Some of the roosts in our coops were installed as a "surprise" to me, and I thought they were too high from day one. During daylight hours, when the roosts are empty, the birds seem to have no trouble hopping up & down. But as the birds mature, and especially now at dusk, the birds have started fussing about going to bed. With the lower roosts in the cockerel cage, bedtime goes much more smoothly. I think I'm going to lower some of the roosts in the other coops where the birds have been fussy & slow at bedtime. I'd really rather have the birds sleeping on roosts than elsewhere. Less fussing means more cuddling, which will be good as the nights get cooler.

I think some of the fussing is pecking order - at mine the Cock is always at top in booth coops. and there is clucking and fussing at bed time but no fights. After a week everyone works out there place. Its nature that makes them want the highest roost - its further away from potential predators.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

I think some of the fussing is pecking order - at mine the Cock is always at top in booth coops. and there is clucking and fussing at bed time but no fights. After a week everyone works out there place. Its nature that makes them want the highest roost - its further away from potential predators.

Yep. And, sadly, some of my Delaware females are real roost bullies. The males are pretty sweet. Walk up and down the roosts calling the "babies" to bed.

 

[gjensen]

I think this is very relevant. It's been something my breeding partner and I have talked about a lot. I gather there are some HUGE New Hampshires out there, and she breeds those, too.

We specifically discussed the issue of oversized birds here at my coop when we had our first breeding group team meeting with our Breeder/Judge consultant. I don't show (at least not yet), but I gather there is a trend toward larger and larger LF in the show ring, with the judges seeming to prefer the bigger birds when all else is relatively equal. So far, we've been NOT wanting to go too far over standard in our line. I don't have issues with that as so far my birds have been a tad on the small side -- my breeding partner has some bigger birds. But I can tell with both the pullets and cockerels this year I'm getting bigger birds too, so started wondering if I should cull the oversized birds.

I was running around playing hostess during the specific part of the discussion where oversized birds were discussed. The consultant seemed less concerned about it than we are ... says as long as the birds are sturdy enough to perform as described in the standard for their breed, oversized was okay in his opinion, as it shows so well, etc. Size is more of a priority with the bantams. But with the LF, he suggested perhaps improvements in feed ingredients and management strategies accounted for the size potential for the breeds being more fully realized, so it doesn't really alarm him. But I didn't really get to cross examine him on the topic (I intend to at some point

).

We have spent most of our assessment time going over the structural integrity of the birds. Wings & legs, keels, pelvic bones. The first thing he showed me was how to really look at the wing curve and joint for indications about the stability of the birds' frames. Very cool ... wings have been my priority as there were some birds with really weird wings in this line. And the way the wings feather makes them look very odd during certain points of their grow out, so we learned about wing feather growth, too. Sure enough, the ones we noted "bad" wings on also had knock knees. We marked them as culls right there. We found one in my flock with a bad keel, which he said could be a management issue due to the roosting situation, and that we should lower the roosts to eliminate that factor. I'm not sure I understood the connection between higher roosts and crooked keels, but I'd been planning to lower the roosts in the cockerel coop anyway. Now it's done.

Some of the roosts in our coops were installed as a "surprise" to me, and I thought they were too high from day one. During daylight hours, when the roosts are empty, the birds seem to have no trouble hopping up & down. But as the birds mature, and especially now at dusk, the birds have started fussing about going to bed. With the lower roosts in the cockerel cage, bedtime goes much more smoothly. I think I'm going to lower some of the roosts in the other coops where the birds have been fussy & slow at bedtime. I'd really rather have the birds sleeping on roosts than elsewhere. Less fussing means more cuddling, which will be good as the nights get cooler.

Do not cull your oversized birds unless there is a health concern. The natural current is towards what a friend of mine calls mediocrity. It could also be called "towards normal". Bantams trend larger, and large fowl trend smaller.

So do not breed them larger. Do not operate under "bigger is better". Select birds that have the best type and color and are large enough. Do not over look that bird for one that is larger. They will trend in the right direction on their own. If you do this long enough, you may have another concern at some point.

The problem for me has been that I am looking for the best carcass at 12-14 wks. It has seamed to favor the larger birds. I am looking for that smaller bird with superior type. Once I use them, I will help the trend. This will require patience.

Emphasizing pullets that come into lay the earliest should help. This will help earlier maturity and size. A two for one. The trick is for a couple of these earlier pullets also be especially helpful.

I agree and disagree with the consultant. That is a judges perspective, and not a Delaware breeders perspective. Faithfulness to the breed would include appropriate weights because smaller birds mature faster. Big framed over sized rock type birds are not Delaware at all. Standard weights make good anchors. It help us keep from drifting too far. Now if the concern was only how they perform in the show, no, never worry about it at all. Bigger is better there. Admitted or not.

Where I do agree is that there is no need to make any big changes in selection. Be mindful of the pullets as I mentioned above, and go with the flow. The flow (current) is in the right direction. Patience and time. There are many things to select for, and this one can be dealt with little by little along the way.

The high roost crooked keel is a wife's tail. Roost board size may be relevant. If there is only one though, it is not likely management. Numbers do not lie. Good that the bird was identified. 16"-24" is a good roost height for these birds, paying attention that they are higher than the water etc.

Fussiness at roost time is often competition and room to roost. One makes the other worse. Make sure they have enough room, and do not worry about the rest. They will figure it out. Bigger birds need more per bird, and I like extra space that settles much.

I wish that I could have worked through the birds with your consultant. I would have learned a lot. The hard way is hard, LOL.