Show off your Delawares! *PIC HEAVY*

[gjensen]

would be interesting to note how old this bird was the saddle feathers seem a bit on the short side which to me is an indicator of a younger bird. Spurs also seem to indicate youth. The shapes change a little as they age and put more meat and fat onto the frame. All in all the shape of the bird is getting there at least in a number of them I have seen. Especially the ones from Kathy's line that Kim is producing.
Color is going to be very hard but shape is getting there.

I was looking at some pics of NH hens the other day and if you bleach out the red in a lot of them they would look a lot like Delawares. The tails and columbian pattern while faint on the NH red is clearly visible on good birds. Thats why I think some trying to "fix" the color pattern are willing to breed Del males back to NH hens with good results. It looks like this outcross might help improve tails and color pattern if your birds seem to be lacking but as Leslie and others are saying your have to be very careful of introducing other elements. Working withing the birds you have would be preferable but sometimes the genetic drift of the line leaves you with little options.

To be perfectly honest Im thinking that recreation and merging of the lines might be a better option.

Im considering getting some PBR and NH from eight acre next year and give it a go.

Why would you want to repeat what you already have? What is the logic behind it. The NHs and BRs that you are describing here are of the same strain that produced your birds? I do not get it.

 

[gjensen]

Sounds good.Ill be looking into that Eight Acre farm seems to have good ones if their website can be believed

If Luanne has said it, you should listen.

 

[gjensen]

I'm glad you say you like a bit more tail than in the Schilling illustration.

We are getting lots of tail in the Kathy's Line birds. I think it looks "fancy," but want to work on tidying them a tad. Part of that will involve breeding for wider feathers so we don't get streaming sickle feathers.

I was just sharing tail photos with a poultry judge who helps with the Delaware club ... He says to aim for 7 main tail feathers. I have a photo of a pullet I like from one of my matings showing 8 mail tail feathers and I had said it looked a bit much. It especially looks like much if you compare it to the Schilling illustration.

Our consultant says to balance the tail spread between the bottoms of the wings and the bird's eye.

I'm learning a lot of cool stuff about tails lately!

I do not care what anyone says, the tails do this breed well, unless they are outrageous. A white bird needs color and contrast to be sharp. So a Delaware needs some tail, and tail spread. I cannot help it. I like the contrast of a well developed black tail on a white bird. Why cannot they look good to? I would rather have a little too much. Just not too much.

The balance your "consultant " speaks of makes good sense. I would not be upset if they spread a little beyond at this point though.

I would not worry about 7 or 8 feathers etc. Go with what your birds tend to produce. Why would you want to change? It is not going to make you or break you. You will not lose or gain points from it. Go with what you have or what you want. If all of my birds had eight tail feathers, then that is where I would be. If they were all 7s, then so be it. If they were half and half, LOL, I would go with 8. I am being silly, but you get my point.

ETA: If you ever wanted to moderate the tails, cross them back on a very good Rock. They have the gene to shorten the tails, and they do not tend to have the spread.

I also wanted to mention, what looks like too much on the young pullets, looks better on the filled out one and two years hens.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

My males tend toward KEY-razy tails. Hugely wide with streamers. I'd appreciate the wide more without the streamers. First step is getting the feathers wider so the sickle feathers arc instead of twirl. I THINK we're making progress on that ... male tails are behind a bit so haven't fully developed.

The females have had wide but messy "fist full of broken feathers" tails. I suspect several management factors for that because this year's batch seems to have lovely organized tails. I'll take that progress.

Personally, I think the Schilling illustration shows a front-heavy cock due to a tiny tail. I think bigger tails offer a more balanced look.

 

[caychris]

Why would you want to repeat what you already have? What is the logic behind it. The NHs and BRs that you are describing here are of the same strain that produced your birds? I do not get it.

Being on the receiving end of F4/F5 culls as my starting birds a number of genetic choices have already been made for me. Going back up the chain to have a more genetic diverse pool would not be bad in my opinion. Breeding is all about choices and every choice comes at a cost. Seeing for myself how the choices play out is invaluable experience in my opinion. Rather than pollute someone else's work for the sake of the shortcut Id take the few steps backward and document better the forks in the road and see if we arrive at the same spot.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

I think Chris is one of the many people who are attracted to Delawares because of the known recipe. Some people see Barred Plymouth Rock + New Hampshire = Delaware as an irrestible dare.

I hope he makes and shares really detailed notes and photographs.

 

[caychris]

I think Chris is one of the many people who are attracted to Delawares because of the known recipe. Some people see Barred Plymouth Rock + New Hampshire = Delaware as an irrestible dare.

I hope he makes and shares really detailed notes and photographs

The last is the reason I want to do it. I love the breed. I want to be able to contribute to the knowledge base on these birds. This isnt a hap hazard effort. I want to understand the parent stock from chick to breeding pair. I want data on the parent birds that you don't really get by searching out adult stock. My hope is that if I spend a year or more raising out BR and NH of my own from good stock will give me some insights into what to expect from my crosses. Back when these birds were developed I have the feeling that the original cross stock selected based on different standards than what we may judge the birds today. My estimation was that the BR and NH were selected first for their individual qualities as production birds and there wasn't a specific outcome they were looking for. The Delaware crosses provided Ellis with an opportunity to go in a direction that was appealing. The other more common cross outcomes were exactly that, easy to produce crosses with little to make them stand out the goal being to make something unique would mean that the rarer Del like outcome would get the attention. I am very interested in producing these first generation crosses to she how much variation exists at this stage. From what I understand in Kathy's line of birds getting to a usable pairing was difficult enough. I wonder if the lack of options in the initial cross is contributing a great deal to the difficulties with the birds. (Its a numbers game after all) My suspicion is due to Ellis's status as a poultry farmer already the number of birds produced from the initial cross was probably staggering by most breeders standards today. I have the sneaky suspicion that he may have had several lines of crosses going as well. The numbers of birds needing to be produced to do any really progress in any breeding program is usually significant.

 

[finnfur]

Being on the receiving end of F4/F5 culls as my starting birds a number of genetic choices have already been made for me. Going back up the chain to have a more genetic diverse pool would not be bad in my opinion. Breeding is all about choices and every choice comes at a cost. Seeing for myself how the choices play out is invaluable experience in my opinion. Rather than pollute someone else's work for the sake of the shortcut Id take the few steps backward and document better the forks in the road and see if we arrive at the same spot.

I understand your desire. But if you started with culls why not get some good stock and save yourself about 4 years or more.
What you save on food would buy a lot of quality and fund the drive to pick them up.
But if you do i wish you success . " Eat mo' chicken" will be you motto .

 

[gjensen]

Allow me to ask this. Caychris . . . . .

With the best of your hatchery type Delaware, what is it that needs to be improved about them?

With the culls that you started with, (which looked like a pretty good start) what would you like to see improved?

 

[caychris]

Allow me to ask this. Caychris . . . . .

With the best of your hatchery type Delaware, what is it that needs to be improved about them?

With the culls that you started with, (which looked like a pretty good start) what would you like to see improved?

The culls came from @capayvalleychick and her breeding program from Kathy's birds (Kim is very protective of her best birds)
Here are some pics of the 2 I got from Kim along with my hatchery Dels (Neal also has 2 hens and 1 cockerel from Kims birds) we combined my 2 birds with his) before I moved my girls.
Both have too much black in places. We have no offspring from my 2 so far but all out hatches have come from Neals birds.