Show off your Delawares! *PIC HEAVY*

[kathyinmo]

Quote:
Did you read this part?

And I’ve been a sucker for the idea that I could make an alliance with another animal species to work this magic myself: I was enough of a kid to jump enthusiastically into composting with worms, turning “pony poop” into fertilizer and chicken feed; and enough of a madman to turn carrion from a friend’s beaver trapping service into live protein for the flock. [Do note that I’ve had some second thoughts on the latter idea. See the important advisory at that link.]

It refers you to THIS page, titled: A Crucially Important Advisory to the Reader

http://www.themodernhomestead.us/article/Feeding-Chickens-Maggots.html

 

[HorizonSon]

Yes, yes I did; as I referenced in my post earlier...
An oxygen deprived environment is needed. Small, fresh, bits that are eaten quickly and not allowed to rot in a well ventilated container is key to avoiding the development/propagation of those nasty dirty lil bacterium.

yucky, yucky!

 

[HorizonSon]

Kathy; from the link you posted, which I had previously read a few times before my original post here in this fine thread...


".....My friends who warned me about limberneck insisted that it could be caused by maggots ingested by chickens from any source. However, in all the links they sent, the references actually described the condition associated only with spilled feed which had become wet, had soured and begun working with maggots, and then been consumed by the birds. Sounds to me as if the botulism bacterium was growing in the soured feed mash, not in the maggots. In any case, I have always avoided using a grain mash as a maggot breeding substrate. However, I fed carrion-bred fly larvae the entire fly season last year, and this season I have honestly lost track of the number of beaver carcasses I’ve put through my buckets—and I have not had a hint of a disease problem. Neither has my longtime mentor Joel Salatin, who follows beef cattle on his pastures with a big flock of laying hens, who scratch apart the cowpies for the maggots growing in them....".

 

[HorizonSon]

On a Delaware note...


My chicks continue to brave the cold wind and rain to scratch around outside.I have been leaving the hinged door open for them for the duration of the day now. They become quite put out when I latch them back up, lol... When I'm out digging up the dirt and sandstone for their future fence/yard, they patiently wait for me to chuck a worm that I find as I dig.

 

[kathyinmo]

Yep.

I can tell you from first hand experience ..... I will NEVER allow my chickens to eat maggots, get into the compost pile, or eat any thing that could even with a remote possibility contain mold, toxins, or botulism ..... yada yada yada ..... I have dealt with it ENOUGH!!!

Oh, and don't get me started on earth worms.... NO, no, no....

 

[HorizonSon]

My lil chicks have been eating worms... What is the concern??? Seriously; it is part of their natural diet. Sounds like you had a pretty negative experience

Mine LOVE them!.. What happened?

 

[Serrin]

You both have raised some very valid points here tonight.

David, I applaud your determination to find ecologically and economically responsible alternatives to feeding your flock. I hope you find something fool proof, if that's even possible. Good luck with this endeavor, and I sincerely hope that you'll continue to post on your progress to that end.

Kathy, there is nothing in this world that can teach us better than first hand experience. Only so much can be gained from the reading of articles and posts to threads. At some point, one must take theory and put it into practice to see where the flaws in the new knowledge lays. And when the putting theory into practice goes terribly wrong, as has happened to you in the past, one certainly hopes to have learned something from the experience. I'm just so sorry that you had to loose birds to gain that knowledge!

As for me and my flock I think we're gonna sit on the fence for awhile longer yet, to watch and see what happens. I'd like to give such high concentrations of protein to my little horde as grubs would represent. But not at the risk of loosing birds, or contaminating my own food supply. There are too many good protein alternatives out there that don't carry a risk of contamination and death to my birds.

For me, these are more than mere barnyard livestock. Oh, so much more than that. These chickens are my friends. [I know, it sounds corny to those who don't view them as anything more than a food source] They are my anchor to good mental health, and a reason for me to get out of bed every morning. How then, in light of that, can I possibly do anything by which I would knowingly jeopardize my flock? The thought is completely repulsive to me!

Anyhow, I hope you both, Kathy and David, will continue this debate. Many of us are learning a great deal from your opposing views!

 

[kathyinmo]

Of course chickens will eat an earthworm when they find one, occasionally, but it is not recommended to feed them. Earthworms carry alot of parasites and other microorganisms. Here is one article.


http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/vm015

Intestinal parasites (worms) are very common in chickens in the backyard type poultry flocks. The presence of a few parasites do not usually cause a problem. However, large numbers can have a devastating effect on growth, egg production, and over-all health. The concentration of parasite eggs in the chickens environment is one factor which plays a major role in determining the severity of the infection. The chickens pick up the parasite eggs directly by ingesting contaminated feed, water, or litter or by eating snails, earthworms, or other insects (intermediate hosts) which can carry the eggs.

Clinical signs of parasitism are unthriftyness, poor growth and feed conversion, decreased egg production, and even death in severe infections. Furthermore, parasites can make the flock less resistant to diseases and exacerbate existing disease conditions.

Of all the intestinal worms, large roundworms (Ascaridia galli) probably inflict the most damage. Young birds are affected more severely. A mild infection is often not noticed. Large numbers of worms, however, interfere with feed absorption causing poor growth and production. In severe infections there can be actual intestinal blockage by the worms, causing death. Affected birds are unthrifty and more susceptible to other diseases. Roundworms are passed from bird to bird by directly ingesting the parasite egg in fecal contaminated feed, water, or litter, or by eating grasshoppers or earthworms carrying the parasite.

Another worm commonly found in chickens is the cecal worm (Heterakis gallinarum). While it rarely causes problems in chickens, its chief economic importance lies in its role as a carrier of the organism Histomonas melegridis, which causes a deadly disease in turkeys known as blackhead. Earthworms ingest the cecal worm egg containing the histomonad organism from the chicken litter. When the earthworms are ingested by the turkeys, they become infected. The cecal worm egg containing the histomonad organism may also be directly ingested by turkeys. Thus, one should never house chickens and turkeys together or allow turkeys on range which chickens have previously occupied.

Other intestinal parasites that cause problems are the small roundworms (Capillaria sp.). These parasites infect the intestines causing hemorrhage and thickening of the intestinal walls, leading to poor feed absorption and poor growth. Small roundworms are passed directly from bird to bird by ingestion of the parasite eggs or by ingestion of earthworms, insects, and other vectors carrying the parasite. Tapeworms are also very common, but unlike other worms must be passed through an intermediate host, such as a snail, slug, earthworm, beetle or fly.

Prevention and control of worm infestations in backyard poultry flocks involves proper management of diet, sanitation, and treatment. Chickens need a proper diet, especially an adequate supply of vitamins A and the B complex. A deficiency in these has been shown to increase the susceptibility to parasitism.

1. Thorough removal of litter between flocks of chickens.
2.Keep litter as dry as possible.
3. Avoid overcrowding.
4. Keep wild birds, pigeons and other birds away from chickens. They may be infected and shedding the worm eggs.
5.Provide adequate drainage of ranges and move shelters frequently to decrease accumulation of droppings.
6.Keep birds off freshly plowed ground where ingestion of earthworms and other insects is more likely.
7.Use insecticides to control insect populations.

The treatment of chickens to control intestinal parasites can benefit the grower by decreasing parasite levels in heavily infected birds. This will result in a decrease in the build-up of parasite eggs in the environment. Specific worm infections require specific medications. A determination of which worms are affecting your chickens should be made by your veterinarian prior to treatment. Proper use of medication in combination with sound management and sanitation practices should limit production losses from intestinal worms.

 

[Inkheart]

Kathy that makes me a bit nervous - my Dels are to me champion foragers and honeslty hard to stop them - but when it is warm out - ahem - grasshoppers and worms - i see them eat them constantly! They are out in two acres during the day - i guess there is no way to stop them - should i be preventatively worming them or something? Alas we are frozen and snow covered now - but in the summer?

 

[ca]

Wow, all these issues "especially in moist areas" make me glad to live in the desert! Not much opportunity for microorganisms to thrive except deeper in the soil. I worked on a study in Phoenix years ago where I investigated bacteria living in the soil (it was a microbiology study with polymerase chain reactions, TRFLP, cloning and all the fun stuff). If I remember right I found Clostridium Botulinum only in one or two samples. Clostridium is a very hardy bug though. They can form spores and actually do well (for a while) in dry environments. Oh and did I mention they are anaerobic? So starving them of oxygen will not do the trick at all.