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[Lauravonsmurf]

I think you are right about creating two lines, if you like the quality of the cocks from both mixes, one line will be heavy RB the other K.

If you add outside blood you would need to be very choosy. You want to add only blood that is compatible or complimentary to your goals, only blood that adds a missing element and then you will probably need to do some very careful back crossing.

 

[JShubin]

Alright you now have at least one clutch off the granson bred back to the original hen and what if at the same time you had bred the broodcock to his daughters and grandaughters? Now you have to lines nearly identical to the original pair and you should have plenty of viable offspring for picking through, no need to go elsewhere. Remeber the reason you did this to begin with was because you are setting a family like the original pair (The hen was a known producer of excellent stags, not all hens are, and hopefully her half brother was an exceptional cock).and you also have plenty of aunts, uncles and cousins of varying percentages so you probably have plenty of culls and hopefully plenty of good ones like the original pair. If you are importing fowl and crossing them...aren't you basically just creating half and quarter bred hybrids and if you get a good one, it's gone when that chickens dies...and what to do next...you aren't fixing any traits that way right?

I see what you mean by fixing traits... but at some point you are going to have to out cross this family with something... you cannot continue to linebreed forever. (Well you could I just don't see the advantages compared with potential drawbacks.) Also I wouldn't want to set a family with just two fowl, especially when they are already related (half bro and half sis). just my opinion.

You wouldn't loose those good qualities once she is gone. The offspring don't have to be inbred/linebred to inherit traits from the parents. She should produce great offspring regardless if you bred with her half brother or not.

Producing hybrids is typical.. obviously she was a hybrid to begin with (3/4 YLH x 1/4 BR)... All gamefowl are hybrids, people just lock in genetics for a period of time until it becomes a hybrid or part of a new family.

Just my two cents... not trying to discredit anything you believe or read about..

 

[JShubin]

Despite all my nonsense about hybrids/crosses.... I have to admit I am trying to recreate my favorite cock, Fabio (who passed away not too long ago) through line breeding methods...

(I had him for about 5 years and he was top notch. I used to keep all my game free range and let them sort out who would dominate the yard... Fabio beat all his brothers and his dad.)

So I bred Fabio to several hens I acquired from other people... Basically created a bunch of Fabio crosses.

Now I am breeding his cross daughters like crazy with other Fabio crosses. I am around 7/8th Fabio on one my 2014 Stags.

Fabio is my avatar/profile pic



Here is my 7/8th Fabio - his grandson and greatgrandson - "Fallow"

 

[Bushmansbliss]

A 2014 Asil stag.

 

[troyer]

Despite all my nonsense about hybrids/crosses.... I have to admit I am trying to recreate my favorite cock, Fabio (who passed away not too long ago) through line breeding methods...

(I had him for about 5 years and he was top notch. I used to keep all my game free range and let them sort out who would dominate the yard... Fabio beat all his brothers and his dad.)

So I bred Fabio to several hens I acquired from other people... Basically created a bunch of Fabio crosses.

Now I am breeding his cross daughters like crazy with other Fabio crosses. I am around 7/8th Fabio on one my 2014 Stags.

Fabio is my avatar/profile pic



Here is my 7/8th Fabio - his grandson and greatgrandson - "Fallow"

A lot of similar traits to Fabio on Fallow.

 

[JShubin]

A lot of similar traits to Fabio on Fallow.

Thanks... that's what I was trying to show.

Here is one of Fabio's sons from 2014... "Gamer". Similar body style but has yellow legs and very white earlobes.


I breeding this guy to Fallow's mom and sisters this year. Hoping to weed out yellow legs, but I want to keep Gamer's (formerly Fabio's) excellent performance, conformation and size.

 

[Lauravonsmurf]

Thanks... that's what I was trying to show.

Here is one of Fabio's sons from 2014... "Gamer". Similar body style but has yellow legs and very white earlobes.


I breeding this guy to Fallow's mom and sisters this year. Hoping to weed out yellow legs, but I want to keep Gamer's (formerly Fabio's) excellent performance, conformation and size.

White Skin is dominate (W), yellow is recessive (w). In breeding it is easier to breed out dominate genes... so be aware the yellow might pop-up for a bit.

Fabio appears to be Ww if his son Fallow is yellow ww.

So you will want W carrying sisters, this is an opportunity to test if the sisters are WW or Ww, as Fallow (ww) is crossed with (WW) hens you will get all White skins (Ww), but if the hen is (Ww) some chicks will come out Yellow skined (ww). Then any chicks that are Ww will need to be bred back to WW carriers this should up the % of White skinned birds, but you will need to test breed those offspring to know which are Ww and which are WW, once you know which are WW you will have that trait set in those birds.

 

[Lauravonsmurf]

A 2014 Asil stag.

I do love the asians... nice bird.

I love the pearl eyes...

 

[Regular Guy]

I see what you mean by fixing traits... but at some point you are going to have to out cross this family with something... you cannot continue to linebreed forever. (Well you could I just don't see the advantages compared with potential drawbacks.) Also I wouldn't want to set a family with just two fowl, especially when they are already related (half bro and half sis). just my opinion.

You wouldn't loose those good qualities once she is gone. The offspring don't have to be inbred/linebred to inherit traits from the parents. She should produce great offspring regardless if you bred with her half brother or not.

Producing hybrids is typical.. obviously she was a hybrid to begin with (3/4 YLH x 1/4 BR)... All gamefowl are hybrids, people just lock in genetics for a period of time until it becomes a hybrid or part of a new family.

Just my two cents... not trying to discredit anything you believe or read about..

There are differnt methods, but inbreeding/linebreeding gamefowl is what has worked for thousands of years..I had to figure all this out with pencil and paper many years ago with only tid bits of advice shared here and there. It's kind of like the invention of the wheel, if there is a new one, I'd love to hear about it

Edit to add: Sounds like you're already doing this with your Fabio line and becoming more organized with it

 

[Regular Guy]

Despite all my nonsense about hybrids/crosses.... I have to admit I am trying to recreate my favorite cock, Fabio (who passed away not too long ago) through line breeding methods...

(I had him for about 5 years and he was top notch. I used to keep all my game free range and let them sort out who would dominate the yard... Fabio beat all his brothers and his dad.)

So I bred Fabio to several hens I acquired from other people... Basically created a bunch of Fabio crosses.

Now I am breeding his cross daughters like crazy with other Fabio crosses. I am around 7/8th Fabio on one my 2014 Stags.

Fabio is my avatar/profile pic



Here is my 7/8th Fabio - his grandson and greatgrandson - "Fallow"

I may just be dog tired, I did have a long hard day, but if you crossed Fabio on hens aquired outside and made 4/8ths (1/2) Fabios, how did you get to 7/8ths?