show quality speckled sussex ??

[math ace]

Hi, I'm finially going to get some SS Cockeral chicks, ( 5) around the 24 th,and I'm so excited about it! hopefully I will get at least one that will help my girls comb faults. I was wondering if for the boys you start culling at around 20 weeks like the girls or do we start earlier with the boys since the boys combs develope earlier would you cull earlier too? Thanks for the Info. Sandy.

Combs are only worth about 5 points to the whole "show quality" bird package.
My girls have comb issues too, but they have other more costly SOP issues too.
I am not saying that you should ignore the combs, but I am suggesting that you look at EVERYTHING your hens need.

Odds are, If one cockerel has a nasty comb, then a lot of the boys (if not all of them) from the same source will have nasty combs.
My last SS cockerel ended up maturing at just under 7 lbs. To me that was a bigger issue. I didn't want to use a smaller roo and end up with smaller SS next generation.
He had a nasty comb and I was contemplating using him. The final straw was when I put him on the scale around 9 months and he was under 7 lbs. Some of my hens are the same size that he was LOL...

I have a cockerel that is just starting to look really nice and he is 26 weeks old. . . .
I think until you know your line and know the breed, you will have to wait to see how the bird matures.
I will try to get a pic of this cockerel this weekend. Then I can post pics from chick til now. That might give you some idea of when you could start making some culling desicions.

This a cockerel from a totally different line than my first undersized roo. I think I made the right call to WAIT for a better roo. My girls are 11 months old and I still haven't hatched anything from them.

If you see comb issues and you don't want them in your flock, then be patient and try a different line of SS. Your girls already have messed up combs, so you are RIGHT in wanting / needing a roo with a nice comb to balance out the issues. . . .

 

[math ace]

Guess who is at the show I am at right now???

I can only afford 10 but I am going to pre-order my chicks.

Tony Albritton says he is out to May for his orders but if I put an order in this weekend I should have chicks in May!!!

Finally. Also, when I was cleaning my show bird pen I got some photos of my feed store SS. I'll try to post them sometime in the next week. I'll share anyother news tomorrow night when I get home from the show.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, POST pics of the chicks as they grow.... Not just the cute baby photos, but as they mature too! I would be very interested to see his final product. I think the only pics I have seen of his birds have been from the shows he has won at.

 

[math ace]

Hi cowchick11,
That's great news! So happy for you on all counts. When you talk to Tony again, ask him what he feeds his Sussex while they're growing. Many Sussex do well on a breed-specific diet. If he gives you his ration, just copy it for your birds since his strain is already used to it.
Best,
Karen in western PA

Nice idea Karen! I would be interested in finding out if he is finding them a special diet.

 

[math ace]

MAN, I just spent 20 minutes writing this long response and the dang computer just ate it!

I'm not re-doing it all, so this time around will be short and sweet. Please, forgive me if it sounds BLUNT...

There are some issues with these cockerels. Texaschickmom, if your goal is show quality SS, you might be better looking for cockerels from a new source. I did this three times last year and finally have something that I am willing to use. Cockerels are important to your program because you use the same boy over and over. The ladies can be changed out without a problem, but most of us are small BYC folks and won't have the space or resources to manage a truck load of cockerels.

All these boys have twists in their combs. Since their faults are all similiar, I am thinking they are all from the same breeder. If your hens are from the same place, you will just be doubling up on these faults if you breed them together.

The SOP calls for hackles to have NARROW Black STRIPE.

HACKLE: lustrous mahogany bay, each feather having a narrow black stripe in lower half of web, the black stripe decreasing in width near end of feather
and then branching off to outer edge of each side of shaft near point. POINT OF FEATHER distinctly marked with diamond shaped white spangle.

NONE of these boys are close to this standard. GREEN cockerel has the least amount of black in the hackles and the least amount of white in the wrong areas.

The other boys have issues with their tails too.. The angles are too high or the tail break is too abrupt.

Texaschickmom, if you decide that you MUST use one of these boys, my pick would be Green Band roo.

I hope my post was not too blunt! I just didn't want to lose it all again.

HELP NEEDED! PIC HEAVY!!
I've got 4 SS roosters that I hatched out and they are 4 months old now. I only want to keep 1 for breeding purposes and would like some SS expertise. I've put different colored zip ties on them so I can tell them apart. So their names are Green, White, Yellow and Black. The one I decide to keep will get a proper name.

So here goes. I've taken 4 shots of each one. I can take additional ones if needed. Thanks for any advice you can give me.
Green Rooster








Here's White Rooster:









Yellow Rooster:









And last, but not least, Black:

 

[3riverschick]

Nice idea Karen! I would be interested in finding out if he is finding them a special diet.

Hi, Math Ace,
The breeder i am getting my started Light Sussex from feeds them a special diet. Frankly, historically it makes sense. As you know, the Sussex were bred to be fattened for market. That's why they are such great winter layers. It's bred into them so the chicks can be hatched early and fattened for Derby Day in the early Spring. They fed the chicks special diets to grow them fast and strong. The Google Books public domain lit has lots of articles on growing out and cramming Sussex for market. One of the Briitish Sussex breeders has started to do it again. Their product is hailed across Britian for its fine eating qualities. They won some kind of award or mark of distinction a couple of years ago, I forget what it was. It's on their website.
Best,
Karen

 

[math ace]

Hi, Math Ace,
The breeder i am getting my started Light Sussex from feeds them a special diet. Frankly, historically it makes sense. As you know, the Sussex were bred to be fattened for market. That's why they are such great winter layers. It's bred into them so the chicks can be hatched early and fattened for Derby Day in the early Spring. They fed the chicks special diets to grow them fast and strong. The Google Books public domain lit has lots of articles on growing out and cramming Sussex for market. One of the Briitish Sussex breeders has started to do it again. Their product is hailed across Britian for its fine eating qualities. They won some kind of award or mark of distinction a couple of years ago, I forget what it was. It's on their website.
Best,
Karen

OK Karen, let's talk about this. . . Let me pick your mind for a few moments, please.
First off, would share the recipe for the special diet you are feeding your Sussex.

Second, I am concerned with the "fattening" of the birds. I've read in many places where fat birds don't lay as well . This aspect is important to me. We don't eat too many of our birds, but we do eat their eggs.

Would you share the website for the British breeder? I would like to find out more about the award.

While we are on the topic of feed and making birds bigger, have you noticed that the SS seem to be late bloomers? I've got some 10 month old hens that seem to be finally getting big. My other two breeds are large fowl - Delaware and Marans. I have always been disappointed in how small the SS are. They have the same weight standard as the other Sussex and yet, mine seem so small. They are small compared to my Marans and Delawares too. I am waiting to see if these girls are just late bloomers, really late bloomers, and won't put the size on until they are 1 year old. Karen what have your experiences with the SS been when it comes to development? Do they mature at the same rate as the other Sussex? Do they mature as quickly as the Delawares or Marans?

 

[texaschickmom]

Thank you, math ace, for your comments and opinions. I didn't think them blunt at all. These roosters were all from the same breeder and will not mention who since they were bought on BYC. I'm not interested in showing birds but would like to have the best quality I can afford at this time. I have fallen in love with this breed. They are not only beautiful but the little pullets are so friendly and follow me all over the place. If I wanted to find better stock who would you recommend? I live in NE Texas and would prefer to pick up. I've had horrible results from shipped eggs this past year.
Thanks again for the time you took to help me out.
Martha

 

[math ace]

Thank you, math ace, for your comments and opinions. I didn't think them blunt at all. These roosters were all from the same breeder and will not mention who since they were bought on BYC. I'm not interested in showing birds but would like to have the best quality I can afford at this time. I have fallen in love with this breed. They are not only beautiful but the little pullets are so friendly and follow me all over the place. If I wanted to find better stock who would you recommend? I live in NE Texas and would prefer to pick up. I've had horrible results from shipped eggs this past year.
Thanks again for the time you took to help me out.
Martha

This is seriously the BILLION dollar question!
I will show you some pics of my last SS hatch. They are around 26 weeks old now. If you like them, I will tell you who to contact!
I haven't seen any BYC photos from any of the top SS breeders. Someone who follows this thread got some chicks from a breeder that I was interested in... I think it was Mr. Heinz77 . That person got Delawares and speckled sussex from the same breeder. We are PAST DUE for updated photos. I hope that person is still following this thread and will post us some updated photos.

I have been under Thunderstorm warnings all day, so I will try to get my updated photos of my birds taken tomorrow... A few posts ago, someone was saying that they are getting some SS from Tony A. in Washington. It would be SUPER nice to see photos of those birds as they mature. I wish I could tell you more.. .

MOST folks don't give two hoots about show quality. They just love the SS because they are such pretty birds. There is still a HUGE market out there for healthy SS birds. I don't think there is any thing wrong with having and selling non-show quality SS. As long as you are honest with the folks you are selling to there is nothing bad about this. . . .

The only time an issue occurs is when someone is LOOKING for show quality birds and ends up purchasing eggs or chicks from stock that is not even close to SQ. As long as each of us communicates where our birds are, there is absolutely nothing wrong with having or selling non-show quality stock

My first 3 SS were from hatcheries. Along with my first leghorns, wyandottes, Easter Eggers, partridge rocks, etc. They were my test babies. I raised them up and decided which I liked and which were not for me.

I bought SS eggs from an ebay person. She didn't promise SQ stock. I, also, bought eggs from a breeder who did promise SQ stock. All my birds from these two folks had too much white, twisted combs, and were underweight. Who do you think I am more disappointed in? It was the breeder who advertised "SQ" ss. Which ones do you think cost me a LOT more $ $ $. The ones that were advertised "SQ" stock. The ebay person didn't bother me at all. I took a chance and I knew it was a gamble, BUT the other person advertised in a way that made me EXPECT more than I got. To be fair, I have recently seen some birds place at shows that should of been DQ. That is a whole other can of worms that I don't think we want to go into

 

[3riverschick]

OK Karen, let's talk about this. . . Let me pick your mind for a few moments, please.
First off, would share the recipe for the special diet you are feeding your Sussex.

Hi Lisa,
I wish I could. The only Sussex I have had so far have been utitlity Speckel Sussex I got after they had finished growing as pullts, cockerel, hens and rooster. So while I learned about breed maintinance, but not growing up the birds. Have studied a lot of the oder texts and talke dto breedrs about the topic, tho. As far as growing out chicks, my experience is with Marans. A true beleiver in the imprtance of the health and proper functioning of the GI tract in the proper development of young mammals and birds, I fed them Poultry Nutri-Drops from birth on in their water. Have had no complaints and some nice compliments on the size and health of the Marans I gave away during my time in the breed.
Unless I can get the formula from the breeder from whom I am getting my Light Sussex, I will have to formulate one of my own.

Second, I am concerned with the "fattening" of the birds. I've read in many places where fat birds don't lay as well . This aspect is important to me. We don't eat too many of our birds, but we do eat their eggs.
There's a difference between a fat bird and a bird bred for fattening and the fattening of the bird itself.
A fat bird which doesn't lay well often carrys a layer of fat underneath the skin. One indicator if a bird may fatten like this is the texture of the bird's skin. A bird with fine texture of skin has skin which will stretch when the bird comes into lay...giving room for the expansion of the bodily organs which increase in size when the bird starts to lay. a bird with coarse skin has skin which doesn't stretch as welll at all. This bird tends to instead develop a layer of non-stretchable fat underneath the skin. Because the bodily organs doesn't have as much room to expand, the bird isn't as good a layer. Note the Sussex SOP states skin of a "fine " texture. The quality of the skin on a bird's legs is one indicatior of the type of skin on the rest of the bird. Note the Sussex SOP states the scales /skin on the legs is of "fine" textrure.

A bird bred for fattening has a structure built to handle the increased weight of the meat put on the carcass when the birds are fattened. In fact, the Sussex Standard states the bones should be fine. Not weak, just fine ( not coarse). The Sussex has well built legs placed properly underneath it so it can handle the weight of it's carcass. The birds were only crammed for a period of 3 weeks before slaughter so no need to carry this extra weight for months. Plus they were not allowed room to roam in the cramming cages. That would defeat the fine white, tender flesh which resulted from cramming the birds with the Sussex oats and skim milk recipe.

Because the structure of the birds relates to every aspect of their commercial virtues, Breed type is everything in Sussex. If it doesn't look like a Sussex, it's not a Sussex ,regardless of color. Color is always last with Sussex.
A Sussex which is not fattened for market, properly bred, still carries all the breed virtues necessary for it to also be a fine layer. One one half of this breed was bred for the cramming, the cockerels. The hens were bred to be fine winter layers so the chicks could be raised early and the cockerels crammed for Derby Day. That's the neat thing about the Sussex. Properly bred over 2 cnturies, they are about a perfect balance betwene the egg and the meat breeds. Able to function as either or both ends of the specturm without outcrossing or modifying breed type.
best,
karen


Would you share the website for the British breeder? I would like to find out more about the award.
http://www.brooklandwhite.co.uk/sussex_fowl.htm
While we are on the topic of feed and making birds bigger, have you noticed that the SS seem to be late bloomers? I've got some 10 month old hens that seem to be finally getting big. My other two breeds are large fowl - Delaware and Marans. I have always been disappointed in how small the SS are. They have the same weight standard as the other Sussex and yet, mine seem so small. They are small compared to my Marans and Delawares too. I am waiting to see if these girls are just late bloomers, really late bloomers, and won't put the size on until they are 1 year old. Karen what have your experiences with the SS been when it comes to development? Do they mature at the same rate as the other Sussex? Do they mature as quickly as the Delawares or Marans?

 

[math ace]

Karen,

I've never seen a bird processed like that... IT reminds me of buying fish at a fish market