Silkie breeding, genetics & showing

[jsp28504]

Wow I miss a few days and whamoo the list is a hopping! I'm finding the NPIP conversation interesting as I'm considering getting certified. Now that I'm caught up with the list here are my new babies from Catdance: 19 silkies (just waiting on one porcelain to finish hatching

I can't wait to get some babies!

 

[littlecritters]

Good site with info on NPIP ---> http://agr.wa.gov/foodanimal/avianhealth/aviannpip.aspx

My application letter for NPIP indicates that NYS provides on site, full flock certification for up to 300 birds. The 90 day *pullorum* certification for showing can only be obtained at limited clinics throughout the state. The clinics are the only chance to obtain "partial flock testing". We are making an appointment for flock testing soon. (Edited to clarify the 90 day test is for pullorum, and is not a 90 day NPIP certificate)

 

[Hawkeye95]

As far as the pullorum test, I know that the bird has to be over 16 weeks. I do have a few birds that are around there, give or take a couple of weeks. What about those that are right on the verge?

If they are right on the edge, I would test them. There is no harm in it. The procedure is very simple.

Incorrect. No where does it say anything about a bonnet shape. The crest should be globular, points may be deducted if the crest is too lobed but technically, the bonnet shape IS globular. It is all in perception.

Not true, the standard is pretty particular about what the crest should look like. Bonnet crests do not fall into line.

Incorrect. You do not have to be NPIP to ship birds. I personally do not want the state to have anything to do with my birds. NPIP is not the be all - end all. Many of the long time great breeders are not NPIP. It seems to be mostly a BYC fad. And not a very effective one at that.

ETA: To clarify, the majority does not know what NPIP really is...but they sure want to be a part of it. It was started to eliminate pullorum disease, which is obsolete. It does NOT test for the transportable illnesses that ARE a threat now.
Lots of people ship, show and sell without NPIP. I want to keep my options open, and I do not intend on having hundreds of birds, so NPIP is not only intrusive, but pointless.

Wow, maybe in your state NPIP is not required, but all around here (Midwest), it most certainly is required. I'm traveling to Eastern Nationals in MO and it is absolutely required there, too. I have to mail in a copy of my certification with registration 3 weeks ahead of the show. Check with your state regulations, I don't know what state you are in, but what I said is true. You're pretty quick to negate me without double checking. To say that NPIP is a fad and pointless is jaw dropping. I can't think of any shows around here that will let you show your bird with out an NPIP or a 90 day Cert. What you do with your license is up to you after you get it. You can certainly buy birds/eggs where ever you want to; just know that if you are showing, shipping or selling, you are voiding your contract. But if it's at the end of your showing season anyway, it probably won't matter since you have to be renewed the next year. And true, the PO should be looking for the certs that are taped to the avian boxes, but whether they check them or not, I can't say.

Actually Hawkeye is right your SUPPOSED to be NPIP or the birds being shipped are supposed to be tested and certified clean of AI, pollurum, and typhoid and have attached paperwork to live bird shipments....however many people do NOT do this, and the PO doesn't check nor care so you can get away with it. However if they do come across someone who knows the laws they can hold the bird shipment and contact the US department of agriculture.

Also it is not a fad, it is easier for someone who is NPIP to go to shows, not all states do NPIP, some states have instate testers or you can get certified and test your own birds, some states the only way to be a typhoid/pullorum certified clean is to have the state do it, here in NC that is the case, unless you only go to instate shows and go to a show early and before hand and get birds tested onsite by the STATE testers, which are banded and recorded with the state.
Out of state shows like Virginia I would have to have my birds typhoid/pullorum tested within a month before the show and AI within 2 weeks I believe before entering into the state and going to the show, otherwise you can not show the bird. Its just the way it is.
If you don't show and aren't a breeder who ships regularly then there is no reason to get NPIP certified. if your in a state that has private testers or you can become a certified tester and test your own birds, then I would definitely do that!

My point was that it is a fact that one does not have to be NPIP to ship, show, or sell. And it certainly is a "fad" in that folks want to jump on board just because someone else said it is the "right thing to do", despite being completely ignorant of all that is involved. I think it should be applied only to huge hatching facilities,etc and NOT small hobbyists with a few birds. As was intended, I believe.

Again, I don't know what State you are in that does not require an NPIP for a show. In my experience, that is not compliant. I might be misunderstanding your use of the word "fad" as well. Forgive me if I am. I took great measures to become informed, talked with the State dept about this, contacted my local extension office, and have made decisions based off of our local (State) laws. It seems that you might be in an exempt State that does not require it, but you might double check that to be sure. But I'm having trouble linking the word "fad" with becoming compliant with local law to enable myself to do the things I want to do with my birds; ex: show.

The point that I was trying to make is that NPIP was created for big business, and I feel it should not apply to small hobbyists. That is MY opinion.
It is my understanding that many transportable diseases are not tested for, and you can certainly pick up illnesses from NPIP birds. On the other hand,
bringing birds to the show to be tested defeats the purpose as simply bringing them can spread illness. I personally do not want to participate in the program, but
may have to in order to show my birds (although I could still spread illness despite being NPIP). See?

Here again, I can only attest to the shows I have personally been to. So far, no one has been allowed to test AT or during a poultry show. That would pretty much defeat the whole reason for doing the testing. Testing dates are usually set up a week or two in advance. We also have State certified testers that can come to our property and test our birds and log us in with the State for either the NPIP or the 90 day. Bringing a sick bird to a show can get you banned for life from that particular show. Especially if you did it knowingly. Check the registration papers of your last show and it should have a set of rules for illness and what action the Superintendent or Secretary will take. Before you get to the show, you should have already mailed in your certifications, and so should everyone else. I'm not saying every single show is run that way, but I would sure hope that they are. I think someone who is very cautious about their show would be running it the way I've seen them run here. And yes, you do take the risk of exposing your birds to other birds (and what they bring in) when you enter a show. It is a decision you should not make lightly. I also look at it this way-- right now, we have wild birds "gathering" and they are dropping dead in my yard from time to time, and as they fly over, they are exposing my flock to whatever they may have. You can not pin down all transference of disease to showing, but you certainly can not rule it out.

As Sonoran pointed out recently, one of the National champions for 2011 has a bonnet crest. I looked at the book and both eastern and western champions look somewhat bonnet shaped to me. I won't be trying to produce the bonnet shape but I definitely won't be culling for it.

Agreed, I would certainly not be working for that type of crest, either. I think the word "fad" could be used correctly here. But we shall see what may evolve with it in coming years. I'm just going to keep plugging along and enjoy how things can change.

 

[jrosemoore]

I'm in love with those little babies you have there. If you need me to take some off your hands just let me know. The coop door is open from 7am until 8pm. Hehehe.This name "Catdance" just keeps popping up. I'm gonna have to get me some of those!!

As Sonoran pointed out recently, one of the National champions for 2011 has a bonnet crest. I looked at the book and both eastern and western champions look somewhat bonnet shaped to me. I won't be trying to produce the bonnet shape but I definitely won't be culling for it.

I agree. If it popped up in my flock and the crest was nice and full, regardless, I would not cull it. I'm not sure if it is something I would breed FOR though. Kind of like watching those people walk around with jeggings on. It works for some people but for some it just doesn't.

As for the NPIP testing, I have noticed some shows that I've applied at REQUIRE it when coming in from out of state. Which stinks. I remember doing a bit of research and feeling like it was just another way that we as chicken owners could be controlled, and monitored. Just like when you buy chickens from a store for egg laying or meat. Why DO they take down our address anyway? I understand the safety issue but also know that my backyard is significantly cleaner when it comes to chicken production. Just looking at a farm fresh yolk vs. a store bought one will tell me that any day.

 

[Hawkeye95]

As for the NPIP testing, I have noticed some shows that I've applied at REQUIRE it when coming in from out of state. Which stinks. I remember doing a bit of research and feeling like it was just another way that we as chicken owners could be controlled, and monitored. Just like when you buy chickens from a store for egg laying or meat. Why DO they take down our address anyway? I understand the safety issue but also know that my backyard is significantly cleaner when it comes to chicken production. Just looking at a farm fresh yolk vs. a store bought one will tell me that any day.

I love Connan! Maybe not in those skinny pants, though.

Are you saying that when you buy chicks at the feed store, they take down your name and address? I thought our State was pretty strict, but I've never run into that, even though you and I are neighboring states. Your state must be stricter than mine! LOL That's too bad. (that's the Midwest for you!) BUT, if you think about it, if you are paying by credit card in the store, or ordering anything over the internet, you are giving them your address anyway. Your backyard likely IS cleaner than some chicken yards, but don't discount the fact that you can have disease literally dropped into your pens from the sky. Lately, here locally, we are having some kind of wild bird disease going on. Birds are dropping dead in everyone's yards. Of course with the gathering of the migratory birds, their sheer numbers could just as likely be a culprit-- as in a disease that is killing off the weak suddenly becomes more apparent when you have more birds.

 

[chisNchickens]

Wow, maybe in your state NPIP is not required, but all around here (Midwest), it most certainly is required. I'm traveling to Eastern Nationals in MO and it is absolutely required there, too. I have to mail in a copy of my certification with registration 3 weeks ahead of the show. Check with your state regulations, I don't know what state you are in, but what I said is true. You're pretty quick to negate me without double checking. To say that NPIP is a fad and pointless is jaw dropping. I can't think of any shows around here that will let you show your bird with out an NPIP or a 90 day Cert. What you do with your license is up to you after you get it. You can certainly buy birds/eggs where ever you want to; just know that if you are showing, shipping or selling, you are voiding your contract. But if it's at the end of your showing season anyway, it probably won't matter since you have to be renewed the next year. And true, the PO should be looking for the certs that are taped to the avian boxes, but whether they check them or not, I can't say.


Perhaps my use of the term "fad" was lacking. Again, what I meant is, the majority of those I see on BYC don't know what it is, why it evolved, or what is involved, but jump on it simply because they think it will make them reputable. Pick up your jaw, look around on here, I am not the only one with reservations. As of right now, I would opt for the 90 day health cert rather than give all control of my small flock over to the state.

 

[Lesalynn]

Hi, I just wanted to share a few pics of a Silkie chick I hatched out this week

 

[Hawkeye95]

Perhaps my use of the term "fad" was lacking. Again, what I meant is, the majority of those I see on BYC don't know what it is, why it evolved, or what is involved, but jump on it simply because they think it will make them reputable. Pick up your jaw, look around on here, I am not the only one with reservations. As of right now, I would opt for the 90 day health cert rather than give all control of my small flock over to the state.


You do realize that other livestock are governed in the same manner, it's not just NPIP. I have horses, and every time I want to travel out of state with them, or go to a show with them, I must get health papers and take part of a mandatory testing that will be recorded and filed with the State/government. Same with dairy and meat animals, like milk/meat goats, bucket calves, dairy cows, etc.. You must be compliant when showing them at Fairs, breeding them, etc. I'm not familiar with their regulations, but they go through a similar process as we do with poultry. This is not a new concept, and it does not produce the same reservations within me that you are feeling. Perhaps because I have grown up in a farming community, and my dad raised beef cows and my mom's parents raised dairy cattle and sold milk I am not nearly as upset or in the dark about how our livestock is governed. Practices similar to the NPIP have been around before I was born concerning our livestock. These effect everyone, including the hobbyist, and especially so if you choose it. Hobbyist are more prone to having bad habits and do not take the precautions that hatcheries or meat barns would have in place. Right now, you have a choice, you do not have to join the NPIP. Just realize that you are excluding yourself from showing and selling. I can't speak for the people I have run across here on BYC that are 'jumping' into NPIP for no good reason other than to just join something they see is out there. I would like to give them a little more credit than mindless idiots. I would like to think that they made informed decisions about why they were doing it; and perhaps it is to show and sell, which would make a lot of sense. Why else would you go about hunting down an official state tester, paying for your certs and testing all of your birds if you aren't going to show/sell? If you're not serious about showing, then there is no reason to do anything about it.

 

[chisNchickens]

Perhaps my use of the term "fad" was lacking. Again, what I meant is, the majority of those I see on BYC don't know what it is, why it evolved, or what is involved, but jump on it simply because they think it will make them reputable. Pick up your jaw, look around on here, I am not the only one with reservations. As of right now, I would opt for the 90 day health cert rather than give all control of my small flock over to the state.


You do realize that other livestock are governed in the same manner, it's not just NPIP. I have horses, and every time I want to travel out of state with them, or go to a show with them, I must get health papers and take part of a mandatory testing that will be recorded and filed with the State/government. Same with dairy and meat animals, like milk/meat goats, bucket calves, dairy cows, etc.. You must be compliant when showing them at Fairs, breeding them, etc. I'm not familiar with their regulations, but they go through a similar process as we do with poultry. This is not a new concept, and it does not produce the same reservations within me that you are feeling. Perhaps because I have grown up in a farming community, and my dad raised beef cows and my mom's parents raised dairy cattle and sold milk I am not nearly as upset or in the dark about how our livestock is governed. Practices similar to the NPIP have been around before I was born concerning our livestock. These effect everyone, including the hobbyist, and especially so if you choose it. Hobbyist are more prone to having bad habits and do not take the precautions that hatcheries or meat barns would have in place. Right now, you have a choice, you do not have to join the NPIP. Just realize that you are excluding yourself from showing and selling. I can't speak for the people I have run across here on BYC that are 'jumping' into NPIP for no good reason other than to just join something they see is out there. I would like to give them a little more credit than mindless idiots. I would like to think that they made informed decisions about why they were doing it; and perhaps it is to show and sell, which would make a lot of sense. Why else would you go about hunting down an official state tester, paying for your certs and testing all of your birds if you aren't going to show/sell? If you're not serious about showing, then there is no reason to do anything about it.

So how is it that you have been showing and selling if you are not NPIP? Seriously, if one excludes one's self by not being NPIP, then how have you been doing it? Funny, I know several exhibitors that are not NPIP.

 

[Adoravachick]

Perhaps my use of the term "fad" was lacking. Again, what I meant is, the majority of those I see on BYC don't know what it is, why it evolved, or what is involved, but jump on it simply because they think it will make them reputable. Pick up your jaw, look around on here, I am not the only one with reservations. As of right now, I would opt for the 90 day health cert rather than give all control of my small flock over to the state.


You do realize that other livestock are governed in the same manner, it's not just NPIP. I have horses, and every time I want to travel out of state with them, or go to a show with them, I must get health papers and take part of a mandatory testing that will be recorded and filed with the State/government. Same with dairy and meat animals, like milk/meat goats, bucket calves, dairy cows, etc.. You must be compliant when showing them at Fairs, breeding them, etc. I'm not familiar with their regulations, but they go through a similar process as we do with poultry. This is not a new concept, and it does not produce the same reservations within me that you are feeling. Perhaps because I have grown up in a farming community, and my dad raised beef cows and my mom's parents raised dairy cattle and sold milk I am not nearly as upset or in the dark about how our livestock is governed. Practices similar to the NPIP have been around before I was born concerning our livestock. These effect everyone, including the hobbyist, and especially so if you choose it. Hobbyist are more prone to having bad habits and do not take the precautions that hatcheries or meat barns would have in place. Right now, you have a choice, you do not have to join the NPIP. Just realize that you are excluding yourself from showing and selling. I can't speak for the people I have run across here on BYC that are 'jumping' into NPIP for no good reason other than to just join something they see is out there. I would like to give them a little more credit than mindless idiots. I would like to think that they made informed decisions about why they were doing it; and perhaps it is to show and sell, which would make a lot of sense. Why else would you go about hunting down an official state tester, paying for your certs and testing all of your birds if you aren't going to show/sell? If you're not serious about showing, then there is no reason to do anything about it.

I agree. Both being horse people, we know about the "Coggins". I see NPIP as the same thing. If you want to show or sell a horse, you have to show health certificates and a negative Coggins test. Its to protect the buyer/seller and other exhibitionists. Anytime you go to a show there is always a risk with ANY animal.