Silkie breeding, genetics & showing

[PaintedFeathers]

They might look something similar to mottled, but someone who knows mottling would not mistake it. Mottle produces a white spot on the tip of the feather. Silver laced outlines a white feather in black. I agree that lacing would not show well on a silkie, at least not like the defined lacing you see on non-silkied feathers, but you should still call it laced. In appearance, it would be something like the penciling you see on partridge silkies, but with fewer markings (penciling is multiple lacings)

Okay cool. So do you have any suggestions as to what color hens I should use? Here is a picture of the male, he has SUPER lacing =) I'm going to be hatching some from him and my blue cream soon and I can't wait to see what they look like.

 

[ChickNmamma]

Quote:
Then from my understanding of chicken genetics, he is Na/Na - which is homozygous for Naked Neck (two copies) - and they do not have the Bowtie - just a bare neck and will ONLY throw SGs because they ALWAYS give a copy of Na to their kids...
Exactly, although I have been told that an Na/Na bird can have a bowtie and Na/na does not always. I've never bred them, so I can only state what I was told (or more specifically corrected on) when I made a statement similar to yours.

Quote: I don't know that showgirls are that hard to find...you're not likely to find them at the feed store or through a hatchery (unless they are very early generation and very, very PQ), but there are plenty of breeders.

Quote:
The Naked Neck (Na/Na) is created by crossing SG to SG.... some will be silkies, some will be SG and some will be Naked Necks. I believe the ratios would be 50% SG, 25% Silkies & 25% NN silkies (which I think are also called SG?). What you don't want to do is cross NN x NN - because those crosses can make your birds loose more feathers each time - until you end up with NO feathers. Poor featherless birds don't live long...
There is a breed called Naked Neck (sometimes called turken) which was used to breed the gene in to silkies. Na is an incompletely dominant gene, like blue, and it breeds like blue.

Na/na (bow-tied showgirl) crossed to na/na (silkie) will give 50% of each.
Na/Na (clean neck showgirl) crossed to na/na will give 100% Na/na
Na/na crossed to Na/na will give 50% Na/na and 25% each of Na/Na and na/na

Thank you, that is where I got the understanding of the Na/Na genetics, from the Naked Neck (Turken) birds. I thought it would cross over to the Showgirls. I was talking to a Turken breeder and they were the ones that commented about the "no bowties" (or smooth necks as they called it) being the Na/Na birds - and they always produced NN when crossed to a regular bird. I see now that it is backwards from what you were told - so I guess we need to bring in a SG or Turken breeder and ask them?

Oh, and THANK YOU for that genetics link - I am going to study that until I understand it completely!

 

[peepblessed]

you are partially Mistaken.why? Porcelain do have lavender, but not al lavender birds are self blue. self blue is a self black bird with two copies of lavender

Ok, lets confuse (or maybe straighten out) some more... Porcelain is Self Blue (lav/lav) x Buff(which is NOT a simple gene combination) and has been called Blue Cream, Self Cream or Porcelain. The name seems to be in limbo??... Because of the complexity possible in the Buff genetics and hidden possibilities in the Self Blue it can throw some oddball colors. If the grandparents were "Pure" Buff (nothing hidden) x "Pure" Self Blue (lav/lav also no hidden) then both parents are "Pure" Porcelain and crossing them would only get Porcelain. However.... there are lots of hidden genes out there - that only when doubled will show. Lavender (lav) is one, or genes may be sex-linked (choc & barring?).... chicken genetics are complex!

I think if you crossed a Porcelain x Porcelain and got Self Blue - somebody wasn't really Porcelain because you lost all the Buff genetics. Maybe that's what he means. Not all birds appearing to be Lavender (Self Blue) are actually lav/lav? Some very light Blue (Bl/bl) without lacing (lacing is hard to see on Silkies) look very much like Lavender... so if your Porcelain carries Bl and no lav/lav It might be Light Blue with gold leakage...

Ouch, now MY head hurts...

edited because I put Lav instead of lav for the gene

Yes, it is a work in progress, and as such you may need to keep adding a bit of this or that until you have it right, but once you do, you shouldn't need to breed out anymore. Best people to talk to are George Mihalik and Sherry Humphreys.

It shouldn't...the birds will be pure for lav, but the presence of Co expands ground colour from gender pattern areas to most of the body.
http://www.edelras.nl/belgians/genetics.htm gives some helpful information, although it is about true porcelains.

Thanks for the link. I guess I was considering porcelain (self-blue cream) to be a lav/split and split to split produces 25% lav. Hopefully your link will clear this up for me.

 

[ChickNmamma]

That link is great, and when I understand it completely it will help. I was playing with the chicken calculator again - and I think I finally found the genotype that will create what I think the Self Cream may be.. see if this looks right to you:

ebeb co+co+ db+db+ pg+pg+ ml+ml+ Cha+Cha+ mh+mh+ di+di+ Ig+Ig+ cb+cb+ i+i+ bl+bl+ lavlav C+C+ Mo+Mo+ b+- s+- Choc+ (Female)
ebeb co+co+ db+db+ pg+pg+ ml+ml+ Cha+Cha+ mh+mh+ di+di+ Ig+Ig+ cb+cb+ i+i+ bl+bl+ lavlav C+C+ Mo+Mo+ b+b+ s+s+ Choc+Choc+(Male)

http://kippenjungle.nl/kruising.html

Use the above link and change the genotypes until it matches the above. The only modifiers of eb/eb (partridge brown) are lav/lav. There is no Columbian and no Lacing.

If the birds are based on E/E they do not show correct coloring. Since most Self blues are based on E/E - you have a lot more work after you make that initial Self Blue (lav/lav) x Buff cross.. a WHOLE bunch more work! No wonder it is still very much a work in progress.

Since Porcelain requires both Columbian and Mottled, that is why the name Porcelain is not being used. (add Co/Co and mo/mo and see the difference)

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote: Porcelain should be pure for lavender, not split. If it is split, it isn't porcelain/self-blue cream/whatever it's being called at any given moment.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

That link is great, and when I understand it completely it will help. I was playing with the chicken calculator again - and I think I finally found the genotype that will create what I think the Self Cream may be.. see if this looks right to you:

ebeb co+co+ db+db+ pg+pg+ ml+ml+ Cha+Cha+ mh+mh+ di+di+ Ig+Ig+ cb+cb+ i+i+ bl+bl+ lavlav C+C+ Mo+Mo+ b+- s+- Choc+ (Female)
ebeb co+co+ db+db+ pg+pg+ ml+ml+ Cha+Cha+ mh+mh+ di+di+ Ig+Ig+ cb+cb+ i+i+ bl+bl+ lavlav C+C+ Mo+Mo+ b+b+ s+s+ Choc+Choc+(Male)

http://kippenjungle.nl/kruising.html

Use the above link and change the genotypes until it matches the above. The only modifiers of eb/eb (partridge brown) are lav/lav. There is no Columbian and no Lacing.

If the birds are based on E/E they do not show correct coloring. Since most Self blues are based on E/E - you have a lot more work after you make that initial Self Blue (lav/lav) x Buff cross.. a WHOLE bunch more work! No wonder it is still very much a work in progress.

Since Porcelain requires both Columbian and Mottled, that is why the name Porcelain is not being used. (add Co/Co and mo/mo and see the difference)

e^b or e^Wh, s/s Ig/Ig Co/Co mo/mo (for a true porcelain) lav/lav bl/bl i/i

The ones that are mostly lavender probably don't have Co. Db could substitute for Co.

 

[ChickNmamma]

Quote: Thank you again, tried the sub Db/Db for Co/Co and they look very similar. However if you cross them - oopsie! Unicolors and incompletes! Very complex color, I suppose once you have it set it works, just don't bring in any unknowns - that really makes a mess... I think I will go back to Partridge.. so much simpler

 

[Feathersprings]

Thank you again, tried the sub Db/Db for Co/Co and they look very similar. However if you cross them - oopsie! Unicolors and incompletes! Very complex color, I suppose once you have it set it works, just don't bring in any unknowns - that really makes a mess... I think I will go back to Partridge.. so much simpler

None of it is simple to me... I need a poultrygenetics for dummies book...

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote: Sigrid claims they are all in stock. www.chickencolours.com

 

[chickd]

Hay are silkie good show bird and what bird are