Silkie breeding, genetics & showing

[Hawkeye95]

This summer, I asked folks on The Coop to help me understand the genetics of black silkies, and how to get true black silkies in a breeding program. The general response was to "never" use a black that comes from blue stock or blue origins. I can post the link to that conversation if anyone is interested. There was some indepth genetic discussion, which I had some difficulty interpreting. Maybe someone here can decipher? At that time I did not query about blue underfluff, and yesterday I went back to The Coop with a follow up question.

Can you find the link or post a discussion about it? I'd love to see it. This is what I was talking about earlier-- so far everything I have read or heard from others is that blacks from blues is not the greatest idea on creating the best blacks. But if it can be sucessfully done... I'm just wondering how. I have that blue bird that is always mistaken for black, she is VERY dark. In person, she gleams like a black bird-- you saw the picture I posted and could see the light bouncing off her "black" feathers. But with the blue underfluff AND the fact she throws splash, she is indeed a blue, no doubt about it. But thinking a blue like her with another dark blue cockerel... maybe could produce blacks that would melanize all the way down...? Or is that a waste of time and stick with hunting down black X black birds.

Does that indicate that the blue gene percentages are out the window or that all the blacks are really blue or that the blacks are just poor quality blacks?

Great question! And if the blacks that have the lighter underfluff---- are they really just a dark blue??? Would they really be a black at all?? Does black HAVE to have the black all the way down? Because, I know with my own blue-- in every way, she looks black, except for the lighter under fluff. And her under fluff is really not that light, at all! But having bred her, I know for a fact she is a dark blue and not black.

Okay, by variety name he is a grey. By genetic composition he is silver. A golden (one copy silver, 1 copy gold) has creamier to light yellowish hackles, etc.

A black from blue to blue breeding could be a very good black; it depends on the melanizers present. Lighter blues tend to have less melanization in hte plumage, but blue is such a variable colour that I am not sure there is a simple "always works this way" answer.

So it could be possible to get a decent black from blue X blue if the birds being used were very dark?

Blue is a dilution gene; it dilutes the amount of black in the feather. It is also highly variable. While the percentages are correct from a genetic discussion, it ignores that some blues are so dark that they appear black. Additional melanizers can add black back into the feathers.

There are a number of discussions about blues at The Coop. It is a highly variable gene as far as the amount of penetrance goes.

I have one of those birds (actually a cockerel, too) that are so dark blue, they look black. Would this be the ideal set up for trying for black? I'm saying, more ideal than two lighter blues.


My blues are Gold based, too. What base color makes the best black, or does it really matter?

 

[LaPetiteFarmer]

Probably a silly question, but how do you find out if it has the silver or gold gene?

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Ok...so a black chick hatched from a paint breeding does NOT carry the paint gene? and as far as 'split' is concerned...why do people say..black split to lav?

Because lav IS recessive. The bird has a black phenotype (appearance), but is known (from breeding data) to carry a hidden copy of lav. Now some people ASSUME that any black that had lav in its background is split, but that is NOT correct. To KNOW that it is split requires that one parent be lavender (lav/lav) or DNA testing. Since a handy-dandy and-held backyard flock DNA sequencer has yet to be invented, that would only happen in a setting such as University of Arkansas where there is a active poultry research.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote: This last is one that has old time breeders debating as to whether the gold gene helps with green sheen. Personally, I have strong doubts on that; green sheen has to do with feather structure, not pigment.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Probably a silly question, but how do you find out if it has the silver or gold gene?

Leakage or breeding records.

 

[LaPetiteFarmer]

Leakage or breeding records.

Thank you

 

[littlecritters]

This last is one that has old time breeders debating as to whether the gold gene helps with green sheen.  Personally, I have strong doubts on that; green sheen has to do with feather structure, not pigment.

So, I'm confused as to how to tell a real black from a dark blue. Is it possible to submit a blood sample for some genetic testing to get a definitive answer?

Here is the link for The Coop conversation ---> http://www.the-coop.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=106189&#Post106189

 

[Adoravachick]

So, I'm confused as to how to tell a real black from a dark blue. Is it possible to submit a blood sample for some genetic testing to get a definitive answer?
Here is the link for The Coop conversation ---> http://www.the-coop.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=106189&#Post106189

Yes, me too. How do you tell the difference between a dark blue and a poorly colored black? If the black isn't true from a BBS pen, why do people breed them? I was under the impression that black from a BBS pen is still black? Can you get a really nice qualiry black from a BBS pen?

 

[chickendales]

Yes, me too. How do you tell the difference between a dark blue and a poorly colored black? If the black isn't true from a BBS pen, why do people breed them? I was under the impression that black from a BBS pen is still black? Can you get a really nice qualiry black from a BBS pen?

yes you can get nice black from bbs pen and yes there true blacks

 

[peepblessed]

My three week old chicks from Catdance 19 total


Two partridge (from paint), but they seem to have barring and mottling on their feathers. The one on the left also has more of a silver shade then the one on the right. Middle is one of the porcelain chicks.



Black and white



4 of the whites



The last white, this one hatched out with yellow down.



Yellow down white with one of the buff



Two buffs with one of the black/lav splits



The three blue and splash babies

You sure had an awesome hatch!!!

yes you can get nice black from bbs pen and yes there true blacks

Still hoping for a photo of what black under fluff on the lower body should look like. Anyone have one?