Silkie Breeding Questions

[NatJ]

I have a Blue Exchequer Japanese bantam hen.

I'm still going to do some experiments to see if I get the same results with other birds.
Have any breed ideas I should cross either Squeakers, or Bigfoot too?

I'd be curious to see the results of the experiments.

Crossing: If you just want to test whether their mottling is the usual recessive, or an unusual dominant form, then cross to birds that are not-mottled and not-white, and see if you get any kind of mottling on the chicks.

For any other purpose, which ones to cross depends on what results you want. You could get interesting chicks from any of those females.

 

[MysteryChicken]

I'd be curious to see the results of the experiments.

Crossing: If you just want to test whether their mottling is the usual recessive, or an unusual dominant form, then cross to birds that are not-mottled and not-white, and see if you get any kind of mottling on the chicks.

For any other purpose, which ones to cross depends on what results you want. You could get interesting chicks from any of those females.

I do have Regular partridge, & Blue Partridge silkie pullets too.

So, skip the white birds. I can do that.

I may post a thread for you to follow once I start breeding, & hatching next spring.

 

[Amer]

"Mottling" as in the color in certain breeds like Ancona--yes.
Effect of the "mottling" gene--not quite.
Mottling seems to make white tip, black section, then the other section whatever color it normally would be (black on "mottled" breeds like Ancona, gold on Millie Fleur, dark red on Speckled Sussex, etc.)

The picture you post shows the white tip, the black part behind the tip, and then another color on the rest of the feather (gray in that picture.)

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579119355154
There's a link on that page to download the whole .pdf, too
The paper is titled
"The Mottling Gene, the Basis of Six Plumage Color Patterns in the Domestic Fowl"
and is by R.G. Somes, published 1979

That paper established that "mottling" (white tip on black feather) and "Mille Fleur" (white tip, black band, gold feather) and some others are indeed caused by the same recessive mottling gene. They discuss how the gene works, and they also crossed varieties to create a silver-mottled bird (similar to Millie Fleur or Speckled Sussex, but with silver instead of the gold.) They have various photos and diagrams in the paper.



Mille Fleur is one of the colors known to be caused by the mottling gene, the same one in that paper I just cited. So I think you are probably working with the usual mottling gene, but it looks different on different backgrounds--like Silver Duckwing.

That would require that Squeakers' father (Phoenix x Silver Duckwing OEGB) must have had one copy of the mottling gene.

I assume the white silkie also had the mottling gene. She might have had only one copy, but even if she was pure for mottling, it would not be visible: white dot on the tip of the feathers, black part turned to white by whatever genes are making her be white, and the rest of the feather white. So white, white, white still makes a white feather.

Oh, forgot to mention earlier: the black on a mottled feather can be turned blue, or white, or chocolate, just like any other black on a chicken (Blue Mille Fleur, Golden Neck Old English Game Bantam, etc.)

X2

 

[Egg Snatcher]

That's some good info on motting.

 

[MysteryChicken]

The one thing that I find interesting is the white bar on the mottled feathers from Bigfoot. The Bar happens a second time in the down of the feather. I believe it's caused the same gene, but need to do some experimenting next year.

I know you said the other coloration doesn't count because of the white tip, but it follows a consistent pattern. I'll part the feathers on Bigfoot, & take pictures later if I have time, plus it's raining.

 

[NatJ]

The one thing that I find interesting is the white bar on the mottled feathers from Bigfoot. The Bar happens a second time in the down of the feather. I believe it's caused the same gene, but need to do some experimenting next year.

I know you said the other coloration doesn't count because of the white tip, but it follows a consistent pattern. I'll part the feathers on Bigfoot, & take pictures later if I have time, plus it's raining.

According to the paper I read, after the white tip and the black bar, the rest of the feather is colored according to whatever other color genes the chicken has. So that white would be there regardless of whether he had mottling or not.

I've seen a chicken with mottling and double lacing (Spangle Cornish Bantam), and the feathers had the white tip, then black, then the next part was double-laced-red. I didn't think to take any pictures, and I no longer have the chicken, but the feathers had quite an intricate pattern on them!

Because Bigfoot appears to have silver (not gold), then it's not so obvious what is white from the mottling gene, and what is white from the Silver gene.

 

[MysteryChicken]

According to the paper I read, after the white tip and the black bar, the rest of the feather is colored according to whatever other color genes the chicken has. So that white would be there regardless of whether he had mottling or not.

I've seen a chicken with mottling and double lacing (Spangle Cornish Bantam), and the feathers had the white tip, then black, then the next part was double-laced-red. I didn't think to take any pictures, and I no longer have the chicken, but the feathers had quite an intricate pattern on them!

Because Bigfoot appears to have silver (not gold), then it's not so obvious what is white from the mottling gene, and what is white from the Silver gene.

Interesting.

He's actually S/s+, he's silver split to gold. It's hard to capture the lemony color on camera.

He doesn't have a black bar, but a white one in the middle between the black area, & down.

 

[NatJ]

He's actually S/s+, he's silver split to gold. It's hard to capture the lemony color on camera.

Is the lemony color enough different than the white feather tips that you can tell them apart? That could be one way way to tell what is caused by the mottling gene (actual white) and what is caused by silver/gold (lemony.)

He doesn't have a black bar, but a white one in the middle between the black area, & down.

I looked back at the pictures of the feathers.
I see white on the tip, then some amount of black, then some white, then the gray down.
I would think the white that's not at the tip is caused by the "silver" part of his genetics, not the mottling.

You mentioned having a mille fleur hen. If you've still got her, maybe pluck a feather and look. Because she's got gold, not silver, it should be easy to see what is caused by mottling (white) and what is part of the base color (gold.) I think you'll find that the feathers look a lot like Bigfoot's, except with gold instead of that white you're talking about. But I could be wrong--I have read a lot about the mottling gene and the various patterns it can be involved in, but I have only seen a few in person. If I am wrong, I'd better learn that, so I don't go around spreading mis-information!

 

[MysteryChicken]

Is the lemony color enough different than the white feather tips that you can tell them apart? That could be one way way to tell what is caused by the mottling gene (actual white) and what is caused by silver/gold (lemony.)



I looked back at the pictures of the feathers.
I see white on the tip, then some amount of black, then some white, then the gray down.
I would think the white that's not at the tip is caused by the "silver" part of his genetics, not the mottling.

You mentioned having a mille fleur hen. If you've still got her, maybe pluck a feather and look. Because she's got gold, not silver, it should be easy to see what is caused by mottling (white) and what is part of the base color (gold.) I think you'll find that the feathers look a lot like Bigfoot's, except with gold instead of that white you're talking about. But I could be wrong--I have read a lot about the mottling gene and the various patterns it can be involved in, but I have only seen a few in person. If I am wrong, I'd better learn that, so I don't go around spreading mis-information!

The Lemony color is in the hackles, saddles, & wing bar. His breast feathers, leg feathers, beard, & butt fluff have the white mottling.

I have a bag of mottled feather Samples I collected from our mottled birds, but forgot to take it out of the truck yesterday. I'll grab it later for comparison, my dad is at work right now.

I have Samples of Mille Fleur, Lavender/Porcelain Mille Fleur, Black mottled, Blue mottled, & Bigfoot's feathers. His just looks so different.

 

[MysteryChicken]

We can take this chat into a conversation so we don't take up, @Egg Snatcher's thread?