Silkie is yawning non stop, help!

[Jenny Loves Chickies]

Your vaccinated birds may never show actual symptoms.
Have you read how the vaccine doesn't prevent the disease but does prevent some symptoms?

There is a good article that explains the disease in the article section here.
I'll go find it and link it for you here now.

Yes thank you, I did read the article you linked. It’s just odd to me that I have Un-vaccinated birds that are still alive. I thought Mareks moved faster, maybe because I took care of the cocci, worms and lice they are experiencing a boost but will succumb to mareks after? The vet that I purchased my vaccinated birds from said to wait and see who develops a natural immunity so maybe it will take time.

 

[casportpony]

I thought Mareks moved faster,

In some flocks it does, but I think most people with Marek's in their flocks lose ~5% a year.

 

[Kiki]

Marek's is not a by the book deal.
Each birds deals with it differently.

 

[Chick-N-Fun]

@Jenny Loves Chickies I am so sorry for the loss of your sweet sweet chickens! Bear hugs to you!
You did the best that you could for your girls and know that your flock is lucky to have you take such care of them!

 

[Jenny Loves Chickies]

@Jenny Loves Chickies I am so sorry for the loss of your sweet sweet chickens! Bear hugs to you!
You did the best that you could for your girls and know that your flock is lucky to have you take such care of them!

Thank you so much, brought tears to me eyes My heart isn’t as tender as when this nightmare began, I’m grateful to still have 10 of my flock left and I will provide the best care I can for them and pray for the best

 

[rebrascora]

Hi
So sorry for your losses. Two birds in a day must have been so distressing!
I'm just reading through this thread for the first time and I've been suspecting Marek's from the first page although the symptoms were by no means typical of the disease. So few cases of it are diagnosed because there are no hard and fast rules with it. I commend you for getting a necropsy and being tenacious enough to keep asking questions until you get a result that makes sense.
I was with @KikisGirls that this was not your fault regarding giving them fermented feed. I would however be interested to know what the feed was that you were using (pellet, crumble, grain mix or mash) and how you were feeding it ie free choice dry from a feeder as well as some fermented, scattering a set amount on the ground or feeding from a pan. Fatty Liver Haemorrhagic Syndrome is a growing concern and a significant proportion of people who have lost birds to it and had it diagnosed via necropsy, have been feeding a grain mix or whole grain feed. I think if you are using such a feed then it needs to be significantly limited rather than fed "ad lib" but there are still concerns that some birds may not get a balanced ration due to the ability to pick and choose favourite components from it rather than a micronized pellet or crumble where each particle is nutritionally balanced. People choose these grain mix feeds which are usually organic and expensive, because they believe they are giving their hens the best, but the reverse can actually be true. Not sure if this is the case in your situation since I didn't see any reference to the type of feed or how you feed it other than it being fermented. I'm just interested in collating information and also encouraging you to consider a switch to pelleted feed to reduce the risk of Fatty Liver within your remaining flock.

As regards other birds not showing signs of Marek's, it is not the sort of disease where all birds experience an outbreak or symptoms at the same time. The disease can have long dormant phases within infected birds and an outbreak can be as subtle as a bird having difficulty keeping one eye fully open or as dramatic as suddenly floundering on their side in the splits unable to get up, or just die quite suddenly as you sadly saw with your Brahma, Ollie. Some birds may recover from outbreaks and some will not. Outbreaks are usually triggered by stress. What stresses one bird may not stress another. There are many situations where you cannot prevent stress, like the surge or hormones at point of lay or drop in hormones at moult, prolonged stormy weather, or predators prowling around at night unsettling them.
Some strains of Marek's are much more aggressive than others. I have one of the milder ones in my flock, so my experience is slightly different from Nambroth's who wrote the article on Marek's Disease that was linked. I get some birds survive outbreaks and go on to have a good quality of life. Supporting their immune system is one of the most important aspects of that, so a good quality poultry vitamin supplement like Nutri Drench or Poultry Cell is helpful and access to grass whenever possible. I'm also a fan of fermenting feed and whilst I don't feed it exclusively, I like to give them at least some each day to help support their gut flora.
It is quite common for sick birds to be infested with lice, so don't feel too bad about them having lice or odd that the remainder of your flock do not appear to have them. Sick birds do not dust bath and preen themselves like healthy birds and lice take advantage of that and thrive on them. Many people tend to find lice on a sick bird and assume the lice are to blame but generally it is the other way around.
I think it is likely that you will see the odd case of Marek's from time to time in the future in your flock but hopefully this initial outbreak will be the worst. Some birds definitely are resistant to it but there really is no way to know other than the fact that they survive year in and year out without getting symptoms. Your vaccinated birds should survive regardless but there are concerns that the vaccine allows the virus to mutate, so more virulent strains develop as a result, so vaccination is not necessarily the best way forward, but if you already have a very hot strain of the disease, then vaccination may be your only option when adding to your flock.
I hope that it is a long time before you have to face another such loss.

 

[Jenny Loves Chickies]

Hi
So sorry for your losses. Two birds in a day must have been so distressing!
I'm just reading through this thread for the first time and I've been suspecting Marek's from the first page although the symptoms were by no means typical of the disease. So few cases of it are diagnosed because there are no hard and fast rules with it. I commend you for getting a necropsy and being tenacious enough to keep asking questions until you get a result that makes sense.
I was with @KikisGirls that this was not your fault regarding giving them fermented feed. I would however be interested to know what the feed was that you were using (pellet, crumble, grain mix or mash) and how you were feeding it ie free choice dry from a feeder as well as some fermented, scattering a set amount on the ground or feeding from a pan. Fatty Liver Haemorrhagic Syndrome is a growing concern and a significant proportion of people who have lost birds to it and had it diagnosed via necropsy, have been feeding a grain mix or whole grain feed. I think if you are using such a feed then it needs to be significantly limited rather than fed "ad lib" but there are still concerns that some birds may not get a balanced ration due to the ability to pick and choose favourite components from it rather than a micronized pellet or crumble where each particle is nutritionally balanced. People choose these grain mix feeds which are usually organic and expensive, because they believe they are giving their hens the best, but the reverse can actually be true. Not sure if this is the case in your situation since I didn't see any reference to the type of feed or how you feed it other than it being fermented. I'm just interested in collating information and also encouraging you to consider a switch to pelleted feed to reduce the risk of Fatty Liver within your remaining flock.

As regards other birds not showing signs of Marek's, it is not the sort of disease where all birds experience an outbreak or symptoms at the same time. The disease can have long dormant phases within infected birds and an outbreak can be as subtle as a bird having difficulty keeping one eye fully open or as dramatic as suddenly floundering on their side in the splits unable to get up, or just die quite suddenly as you sadly saw with your Brahma, Ollie. Some birds may recover from outbreaks and some will not. Outbreaks are usually triggered by stress. What stresses one bird may not stress another. There are many situations where you cannot prevent stress, like the surge or hormones at point of lay or drop in hormones at moult, prolonged stormy weather, or predators prowling around at night unsettling them.
Some strains of Marek's are much more aggressive than others. I have one of the milder ones in my flock, so my experience is slightly different from Nambroth's who wrote the article on Marek's Disease that was linked. I get some birds survive outbreaks and go on to have a good quality of life. Supporting their immune system is one of the most important aspects of that, so a good quality poultry vitamin supplement like Nutri Drench or Poultry Cell is helpful and access to grass whenever possible. I'm also a fan of fermenting feed and whilst I don't feed it exclusively, I like to give them at least some each day to help support their gut flora.
It is quite common for sick birds to be infested with lice, so don't feel too bad about them having lice or odd that the remainder of your flock do not appear to have them. Sick birds do not dust bath and preen themselves like healthy birds and lice take advantage of that and thrive on them. Many people tend to find lice on a sick bird and assume the lice are to blame but generally it is the other way around.
I think it is likely that you will see the odd case of Marek's from time to time in the future in your flock but hopefully this initial outbreak will be the worst. Some birds definitely are resistant to it but there really is no way to know other than the fact that they survive year in and year out without getting symptoms. Your vaccinated birds should survive regardless but there are concerns that the vaccine allows the virus to mutate, so more virulent strains develop as a result, so vaccination is not necessarily the best way forward, but if you already have a very hot strain of the disease, then vaccination may be your only option when adding to your flock.
I hope that it is a long time before you have to face another such loss.

Thank you so much for your kind words and thoughtful information. I absolutely feel as though I’ve been put to the test these past few weeks. I was feeding fermented grower blend from scratch and peck feeds, the ingredients are Organic Wheat, Organic Barley, Organic Peas, Organic Flaxseed Meal, Fish Meal, Ground Limestone, Organic Flaxseed Oil, Vitamin and Mineral Pre-Mix. I fed them approximately 1/2 cup per bird each day in a trough type feeder. Whatever they didn’t eat that day I would toss. They did have the same grain, not fermented, available dry in a feeder where they weren’t able to see the grains and pick and choose what they liked...they have to stick their head all the way in if that makes sense. I just started Purina crumble feed, I’m introducing it slowly and will switch completely in the next week or so. I’m so glad you said that about the lice because I still can’t find any on my other birds, I’m treating them regardless but what you said makes complete sense. I did buy some nutra drench and plan to give it to them once their Corid cycle is completed. Is that something you give to your birds once in a while or in a consistent basis? I also appreciate your insight on Mareks and I too hope it’s a long time before I have to face another loss. Thank you again, this site has meant so much to me and truly is the reason I’ve been able to heal and start to see a way forward

 

[Jenny Loves Chickies]

One of my bielefelders is pulsating her vent on the roost tonight, and as I checked her over my Blue Birchen Marans tipped her head down to check us out and clear liquid poured out...she doesn’t smell sour and I can feel grain in her crop...so here I go getting an epsom salt bath ready and praying to God for all this to ease up...soon

 

[Kiki]

One of my bielefelders is pulsating her vent on the roost tonight, and as I checked her over my Blue Birchen Marans tipped her head down to check us out and clear liquid poured out...she doesn’t smell sour and I can feel grain in her crop...so here I go getting an epsom salt bath ready and praying to God for all this to ease up...soon

Hold on. I don't think you need to rush her into a bath.

Do you know if she laid an egg today?

 

[Kiki]

Remember stress isn't good.
If you think she needs to lay an egg give her some calcium now and again in the morning. It's bed time.