Sled dog breeding

[dainerra]

it's a conversation. other people who DON'T know these things also read it.

The things you are saying, however, are mostly not done that way anymore. Yes a mentor is a must, especially for breeding. A mentor is a godsend in any hobby or sport you want to attempt.
However, many of the ways that you talk about doing things aren't done that way and haven't for years. A good mentor will teach you how to eyeball a dog, use your hands to go over structure and check for obvious problems. BUT they will also tell you how to double-check the contract for common loopholes. What clauses you should ask to be added if you are buying the dog for a specific sport - if you want a mushing dog and that is the sole purpose of buying this puppy, then you make sure that there is a performance clause in the contract. They will also teach you (or recommend) a good vet to have do those xrays and exams. A vet who is used to dealing with sport dogs vs your common couch potato. Same goes for any venue - conformation, agility, whatever you plan to compete in. If you want a pet, most standard contracts will cover you as long as you know what to look for and how to recognize the loopholes that make the contract worthless.

You gave tips like watching the dog run and work. Good ideas but you need to back them up with physical evidence. xrays and a thorough vet exam are a must if you are buying a performance dog, even if just recreational and not planning to compete.

A good dogman knows how to show a dog to its best - therefore he knows how to cheat the unsuspecting buyer if he chooses.
Many dogs with HD will never show a symptom on an average day. Rest him up, give him a couple tylenol before the buyer comes over, take the dog out and he will move like a dream. Same goes for arthritis and most every other ailment.

 

[Americano Blue]

http://www.ehow.com/video_12274116_illegal-sell-puppies-before-8-weeks.html

 

[dainerra]

in many states it is legal to sell at any age. in others, the limit may be 7 weeks or "weaned"

A better resource is:

http://healthypets.mercola.com/site...soon-develop-behavior-problems-as-adults.aspx


http://www.animallaw.info/articles/ovuspuppysaletable.htm

 

[Americano Blue]

So earlier in the thread we were talking about taking puppies back. I don't think i made my point that clear.

Yes you do take puppies (and dogs) back within a time limit. If you sell some one a puppy and they come back 5 years later complaining the dog is sick, you, most likely, don't take it back. the dog is now their problem. If you sell someone a puppy and about a month or so they come back and the puppy is sick they yes, most people will take it back, try to get it back to health and re-sell it. If the people you sold a dog to, bring it back because they are moving and they have no place to but it, you can 1. let them board the dog in your kennel 2. take the dog back and try to sell it 3. help them sell it if you can keep some of the $$ for the boarding, or what ever you choose to handle that problem.

Also, you do take pups to the vet and stuff, you don't want to sell someone a sick pup. You also take the mom and dad to the vet, you just don't get $10,000 worth of test done.

You do take care of dogs if they are sick (i think i made it sound like if its sick you let it die). The dogs have the right to be healthy, and you owe it to them to keep them healthy.

 

[dainerra]

actually, a good breeder will take a dog back at any time. No, they won't give you a refund of money unless they have a very good reason but that dog will ALWAYS have a home. It doesn't matter if the dog is 14 years old.

If I lost my home today, knock on wood, Singe would go to his breeder. If I die in a freak car accident 10 years from now, Singe would go back to his breeder.

Any GOOD breeder has a right of first refusal in their contract meaning that you can't do anything regarding the rehoming the dog without giving the breeder the opportunity to take the dog. Most times, if you have a new home in mind, the breeder will talk to the new home and, if you were a responsible owner, you likely picked a new home very like your own. The breeder will agree and the new family takes the dog.

If the owner talks to the breeder and has health questions and it is decided that it is due to lack of sufficient care by the owner? It's in the contract that the breeder will repossess the dog. And they do this all the time.

Again, it doesn't matter if it's been 10 months or 10 years. The breeder is still standing behind that dog.

 

[dainerra]

for a good breeder, it isn't about the money. It's about the welfare of the dog. They aren't going to be thinking of "I can help them sell this dog so that I get some $$ back to cover taking care of it"
They start the screening process for homes exactly like they would for a new puppy. If that means they end up placing the dog in a great home for free, then they are 1000X times happier than if they sold the dog to an "ok" home for $1000.

They don't think of getting the dog healthy so they can re-sell it. They think of getting the dog healthy so that he can find a new home. I'd guess that the majority of the time, with the breeders I know, the dog would be placed for free or a couple hundred dollars. Doesn't matter if the dog is worth $2000 or more. The only focus is good health and a good home.

 

[Starfire669]

So earlier in the thread we were talking about taking puppies back. I don't think i made my point that clear.

Yes you do take puppies (and dogs) back within a time limit. If you sell some one a puppy and they come back 5 years later complaining the dog is sick, you, most likely, don't take it back. the dog is now their problem. If you sell someone a puppy and about a month or so they come back and the puppy is sick they yes, most people will take it back, try to get it back to health and re-sell it. If the people you sold a dog to, bring it back because they are moving and they have no place to but it, you can 1. let them board the dog in your kennel 2. take the dog back and try to sell it 3. help them sell it if you can keep some of the $$ for the boarding, or what ever you choose to handle that problem. 

Also, you do take pups to the vet and stuff, you don't want to sell someone a sick pup. You also take the mom and dad to the vet, you just don't get $10,000 worth of test done.

You do take care of dogs if they are sick (i think i made it sound like if its sick you let it die). The dogs have the right to be healthy, and you owe it to them to keep them healthy.

That's not how taking a pup back works. If a good breeder sells a dog and it ends up having an inheritable, genetic disease, the breeder wants to know so as to figure out why the dog has it, which parent has produced this disease in other litters, etc. The breeder, who should have done health screens on the parents before the breeding that produced the sick pup, will take that dog back no matter what age the symptoms manifested. This is why buying a puppy that has a health garuntee, whose parents had health tests, and who has a contract, is so important.

When I go dog shopping for a puppy if I don't see hip and eye tests on the parents, that's a huge red flag. If there is no section in the contract that gives the breeder the right to take the dog back, for reasons A, B, C, D, that's another huge red flag. And finally if there is no health garuntee, nothing that holds the breeder responsible if the puppy ends up with a bad genetic disease, well another red flag. If these are missing from the contract, of if there is no contract at all, I walk away and won't buy. The contract is to protect both breeder and buyer, if it's all sales finale thing, it's probably a puppy mill or back yard breeder who had 2 dogs and bred for money.

My mom bred pugs about 15 years ago. Now she did not do health screens, she didn't know about them. But there was a family who purchased a puppy. They were told how to keep it safe and happy. They called and brought the pup back a few months later. The pups jaw was broken, and very crooked. They admitted that they had put it on the sofa, the dog jumped off and broke its jaw. They also stated that they did not take it to the vet. My mom was under no obligation to take this puppy back, it's jaw was the new owners fault, not something related to her breeding. but she not only took it back, she took it to the vet, and she eventually found the puppy a home with an old man who had recently lost his companion pug to old age. He didn't care that the dog would have a crooked face or need soft foods for the rest of its life. My mom gave the pup to him. That pup ended up being the much pampered and spoiled companion for that old man for years. It got a much better life with him than it would have gotten withits first owners. And that's what my mom cared about.

There is a section in my contract for Phantom if I do A, B, C, D, then the breeder has the right to take him from me. If Phantom has E, F, G, then the breeder is held responsible and should do 1 of a couple things to make it right. This is how a contract should be when buying a puppy.

 

[SternRose]

I want to see this contract, whats the website?

 

[Starfire669]

I want to see this contract, whats the website?

Contracts can and do vary from breeder to breeder. My contract is a signed document that has the breeders and my personal information and signatures on it. It is filed in my filing cabinet for safe keeping and I will not scan and upload a copy because of the information contained in it.

Some breeders do put copies of the contract online, others do not. My breeder sat down and went over the contract with me in person, explaining sections I had questions on before we signed it.

 

[dainerra]

a "puppy buyer questionnaire" http://suzanneclothier.com/content/hawks-hunt-gsd-puppy-buyer-questionnaire

some sample contracts:

http://geransgermanshepherd.com/Gerans-puppy-contract.pdf

http://www.vonderinselshepherd.com/8.html

http://www.rscountrysidekennels.com/puppy-purchase-contract.html

http://www.shermanlanekennels.com/health-guarantee--puppy-contract.html

http://www.twilightgreatdanes.com/Contract.html