You guys are cracking me up! Especially Grumpy & Big Bear but I tell you what...after reading it all...I'M using it because nowhere, no one said it could hurt.
So you want to know what diatomacious earth is and how it works?
- Thread starter GrumpyOldMan
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I have some of this stuff and I did a test...
I have a small dog plastic dog house that I keep their food bowls in and because of a storm rain water blew inside and the next day with the 90-100 degree weather it smelled to no end and had flies everywhere!
I really covered the inside with this stuff (which I haven't used in months) and the next day there were no flies and no smell.
HOWEVER there is a horrible white dust on EVERYTHING! I mean grass, food, CHICKENS, everything!!
But no smell and no flies!
Jenn
I have a small dog plastic dog house that I keep their food bowls in and because of a storm rain water blew inside and the next day with the 90-100 degree weather it smelled to no end and had flies everywhere!
I really covered the inside with this stuff (which I haven't used in months) and the next day there were no flies and no smell.
HOWEVER there is a horrible white dust on EVERYTHING! I mean grass, food, CHICKENS, everything!!
But no smell and no flies!
Jenn
Jmurcks wrote: HOWEVER there is a horrible white dust on EVERYTHING! I mean grass, food, CHICKENS, everything!!
We mix in a handful into the wood chips when we rake out the coop/shed. Also add to their favorite dirt bathing locations. This cuts down on the dustiness, somewhat. Poop in coop dries faster, flies tend to avoid it. Spider's still weave webs in the top corners of the coop (though the dust sticks to the webs), Wood Roaches still run around. Does wipe out darkling beetles.
We mix in a handful into the wood chips when we rake out the coop/shed. Also add to their favorite dirt bathing locations. This cuts down on the dustiness, somewhat. Poop in coop dries faster, flies tend to avoid it. Spider's still weave webs in the top corners of the coop (though the dust sticks to the webs), Wood Roaches still run around. Does wipe out darkling beetles.
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Yes, exactly my thoughts. It's relatively inexpensive and if, for some reason, it didn't work as a wormer, I could still go to the feed store and get a chemical wormer.
As for BigBear, I don't mean it as a personal attack or anything, but your suckling at the teet of science quite so hard is a bit alarming. "Scientific" studies have declared a lot of pharmaceuticals and other chemicals safe. A lot of them have later been proven to have unintended side effects that simply could not be ferreted out by short-term, "scientific" studies. Over the years, eggs have been both heralded and vilified by science. And, don't even get me started on antibiotics. Four or five years ago, doctors prescribed them like they were simple placebos, they handed them out like Chiclets. Now, since the outbreak of MRSA and our collective enlightenment to antibiotic resistance, they're harder to come by than heroine (except veterinary grade). The list goes on and on, ad nauseam. And, it's all supported by science. Both sides of each engagement have "science" to support them. Much like anecdotal evidence, perhaps the results of scientific research should be taken with a grain of salt. Science can be influenced, as you yourself have pointed out, by what questions are asked and who's asking them.
Science is has yet to answer every question. And many of the questions that have been answered, have been ... re-answered. Some, many times over. Science does not yet have the immutable, unquestionable answer to everything.
Yes, exactly my thoughts. It's relatively inexpensive and if, for some reason, it didn't work as a wormer, I could still go to the feed store and get a chemical wormer.
As for BigBear, I don't mean it as a personal attack or anything, but your suckling at the teet of science quite so hard is a bit alarming. "Scientific" studies have declared a lot of pharmaceuticals and other chemicals safe. A lot of them have later been proven to have unintended side effects that simply could not be ferreted out by short-term, "scientific" studies. Over the years, eggs have been both heralded and vilified by science. And, don't even get me started on antibiotics. Four or five years ago, doctors prescribed them like they were simple placebos, they handed them out like Chiclets. Now, since the outbreak of MRSA and our collective enlightenment to antibiotic resistance, they're harder to come by than heroine (except veterinary grade). The list goes on and on, ad nauseam. And, it's all supported by science. Both sides of each engagement have "science" to support them. Much like anecdotal evidence, perhaps the results of scientific research should be taken with a grain of salt. Science can be influenced, as you yourself have pointed out, by what questions are asked and who's asking them.
Science is has yet to answer every question. And many of the questions that have been answered, have been ... re-answered. Some, many times over. Science does not yet have the immutable, unquestionable answer to everything.
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Why do we crack you up? Notice neither of us told the other he was full of it. Sounds like hes done a lot more research than I and replied to my assumptions and some facts with what he believes to be true. I still dont understand how moisture could completely break the silica down, (water softeners won't even destroy silica), but I do understand haw DE can only absorber to its saturation point. Through debate we learn.
There were more flies today than yesterday. I put more DE down. I live in SE Louisiana where the humidity and heat is relentless. It will take time for me know if it really works "here" or not. While there were more flies today the werent as many as there were before. BUT even before DE sometimes there were more than at other time. We'llllllll seeeeee!
I dont plan on using DE to get rid of my tapeworm, it helps keep my weight down.
Why do we crack you up? Notice neither of us told the other he was full of it. Sounds like hes done a lot more research than I and replied to my assumptions and some facts with what he believes to be true. I still dont understand how moisture could completely break the silica down, (water softeners won't even destroy silica), but I do understand haw DE can only absorber to its saturation point. Through debate we learn.
There were more flies today than yesterday. I put more DE down. I live in SE Louisiana where the humidity and heat is relentless. It will take time for me know if it really works "here" or not. While there were more flies today the werent as many as there were before. BUT even before DE sometimes there were more than at other time. We'llllllll seeeeee!
I dont plan on using DE to get rid of my tapeworm, it helps keep my weight down.
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I will just say that DE does work for killing internal worms. I know because I have used it for quite some time now. My birds eat earthworms, flies, and whatever else kind of bug that happens to cross their path, and pick around in the dirt and they have been worm free for as long as I've used DE in their food, just over a year now. That's proof by using it, not by reading something. I don't have money to throw away so I certainly wouldn't be using it if it didn't work. And that's not anecdotal evidence, it's real evidence. I didn't do a little 2 week study on lab birds, It has worked for over a year now on my free range chickens and turkeys. I don't know if it kills or prevents any other kind of parasite, but worms? YEP sure does.
Have you done fecal egg counts to determine if they have parasites, or are you just going by a lack of symptoms?
Do you know for certain they had worms BEFORE you started feeding them DE?
My birds free range and eat all the same things yours do and I've never had any signs of a worm infestation.
But I haven' given them ANYTHING at all for worms, so ANECDOTALLY, I can tell you doing NOTHING works as well as feeding DE
Unless you've done testing for parasites and used a control group, yours IS "anecdotal" evidence. Length of time doesn't change the definition:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence
Have you done fecal egg counts to determine if they have parasites, or are you just going by a lack of symptoms?
Do you know for certain they had worms BEFORE you started feeding them DE?
My birds free range and eat all the same things yours do and I've never had any signs of a worm infestation.
But I haven' given them ANYTHING at all for worms, so ANECDOTALLY, I can tell you doing NOTHING works as well as feeding DE
Unless you've done testing for parasites and used a control group, yours IS "anecdotal" evidence. Length of time doesn't change the definition:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence
The expression anecdotal evidence has two distinct meanings.
(1) Evidence in the form of an anecdote or hearsay is called anecdotal if there is doubt about its veracity; the evidence itself is considered untrustworthy.
(2) Evidence, which may itself be true and verifiable, used to deduce a conclusion which does not follow from it, usually by generalizing from an insufficient amount of evidence
In science, anecdotal evidence has been defined as:
"information that is not based on facts or careful study"[2][verification needed]
"non-scientific observations or studies, which do not provide proof but may assist research efforts"[3]
"reports or observations of usually unscientific observers"[4]
"casual observations or indications rather than rigorous or scientific analysis"[5]
"information passed along by word-of-mouth but not documented scientifically"
(1) Evidence in the form of an anecdote or hearsay is called anecdotal if there is doubt about its veracity; the evidence itself is considered untrustworthy.
(2) Evidence, which may itself be true and verifiable, used to deduce a conclusion which does not follow from it, usually by generalizing from an insufficient amount of evidence
In science, anecdotal evidence has been defined as:
"information that is not based on facts or careful study"[2][verification needed]
"non-scientific observations or studies, which do not provide proof but may assist research efforts"[3]
"reports or observations of usually unscientific observers"[4]
"casual observations or indications rather than rigorous or scientific analysis"[5]
"information passed along by word-of-mouth but not documented scientifically"
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Penicillin is a CHEMICAL derived from a mold. It works to kill bacteria. It will not kill insects or parasites
DE is powdered ROCK. It WILL kill insects ( if dry). It does not work on internal parasites or bacteria.
Anecdotal evidence is STILL not "proof" no matter how many people repeat it
I will just say that DE does work for killing internal worms. I know because I have used it for quite some time now. My birds eat earthworms, flies, and whatever else kind of bug that happens to cross their path, and pick around in the dirt and they have been worm free for as long as I've used DE in their food, just over a year now. That's proof by using it, not by reading something. I don't have money to throw away so I certainly wouldn't be using it if it didn't work. And that's not anecdotal evidence, it's real evidence. I didn't do a little 2 week study on lab birds, It has worked for over a year now on my free range chickens and turkeys. I don't know if it kills or prevents any other kind of parasite, but worms? YEP sure does.
And how have your control groups fared? You know, the ones who are in the exact same conditions but are not fed DE? Or a blind study where both groups are fed a powdered white substance, but only one is DE, and you don't know which it is. How many faecal float tests have you performed on how many birds to determine that they are indeed worm free?
Penicillin is a CHEMICAL derived from a mold. It works to kill bacteria. It will not kill insects or parasites
DE is powdered ROCK. It WILL kill insects ( if dry). It does not work on internal parasites or bacteria.
Anecdotal evidence is STILL not "proof" no matter how many people repeat it
And how have your control groups fared? You know, the ones who are in the exact same conditions but are not fed DE? Or a blind study where both groups are fed a powdered white substance, but only one is DE, and you don't know which it is. How many faecal float tests have you performed on how many birds to determine that they are indeed worm free?
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And you have found its true usefulness.
I put DE on droppings, in drop pans, in the coop bedding to help dry up after irrigation and help deter bugs, and in nest boxes. I've poured it on ant holes and scorpions. If a bird has really lose droppings, I might consider feeding DE, but whole grains are a preferred choise. Oh, and I've used it to stop bleeding.
And you have found its true usefulness.
I put DE on droppings, in drop pans, in the coop bedding to help dry up after irrigation and help deter bugs, and in nest boxes. I've poured it on ant holes and scorpions. If a bird has really lose droppings, I might consider feeding DE, but whole grains are a preferred choise. Oh, and I've used it to stop bleeding.
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And those who believe DE is a cure-all usually squash those who disagree or cite their own anecdotal evidence that it did not work. Most of us who are not "born-again DE believers" will occasionally make statements intended to debunk the hype, to provide a contrasting opinion or ask for scientific evidence that it works all the (heck--ANY of) the miracles to which it has been ascribed.
DE has its purposes. It is an excellent dessicant & has abrasive qualities. But it is not a cure-all.
And those who believe DE is a cure-all usually squash those who disagree or cite their own anecdotal evidence that it did not work. Most of us who are not "born-again DE believers" will occasionally make statements intended to debunk the hype, to provide a contrasting opinion or ask for scientific evidence that it works all the (heck--ANY of) the miracles to which it has been ascribed.
DE has its purposes. It is an excellent dessicant & has abrasive qualities. But it is not a cure-all.
Mervin wrote: Science does not yet have the immutable, unquestionable answer to everything.
Science is simply a formalized method of attempting to determine whether what we are looking at, or for, is what we are actually seeing/finding.
The problem is that, often, results are interpreted/put to use by those who believe they have the unquestionable answers.
Science is simply a formalized method of attempting to determine whether what we are looking at, or for, is what we are actually seeing/finding.
The problem is that, often, results are interpreted/put to use by those who believe they have the unquestionable answers.
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