socialism

[me&thegals]

Quote:
Great post, Xtina! While I don't have strong feelings about socialism, I do have strong feelings about people posting things that are completely biased and incompletely explained. The candy example is a nice, simple one, but perhaps just a bit TOO simple.

Msbear--Completely agree with you, too

 

[Ol'FashionHen]

Mahonri..............

, I like Ray Stevens too.

 

[HarlansHollowFarms]

Quote:
I agree partially with this post, except for the fact that the OP was a good analogy. I've gotten that forward several times and always deleted it straightaway. Instead of using this as a way to explain a political concept to a young person, I'd use it as an illustration of how biased and sheltered people are, and how it's important to not believe everything that comes to you through an email forward.

I was taught about socialism and communism by people with this same mentality. Now as an adult, what I think when I look back on that teaching is how biased and incomplete it was. Here's an example. Imagine that in socialist nations, people sent similar forwards about straight capitalism. It might go something like this: "In capitalism, people are rewarded for their hard efforts as well as for their cheating and stealing. The only thing that matters is how much money you make and how much of it you can hide from the government so as to keep it all for yourself, while people that might have benefitted from social programs go hungry, sick, and uneducated." This email would be biased and unfair. That's now how it works in capitalism, and the original post is not how it works in socialism. Sure, we hear about the worst of the worst, like North Korea and Venezuela, while the best get brushed under the rug, like Sweden. We criticize North Korea's government for letting aid organizations (non-profits) feed its people while spending its money to build nuclear weapons (or at least, I criticize North Korea) while our own government does the exact same thing but to a lesser extent. And that's the danger of listening to emails like this one. So critical of what goes on in other nations but we can't see the planks in our own eyes.

When you hear the word socialism, as the quoted poster said there is no pure socialist nation. The socialist nations today are really capitalist societies that have installed social safety nets for their people. It's a LOT like America, except that the populace gains the benefits of taxes instead of mostly businesses. Socialism is not a contradiction of democracy. And democracy is the concept that America is proud of. Capitalism is completely different from democracy. What we criticize in nations like North Korea is dictatorship. And you could theoretically have a capitalist dictatorship.

Nations like Sweden, France, Great Britain, and Germany are capitalist with strong socialist underpinnings that they value tremendously. In Sweden, they pay 10% more income tax than we do in the United States. And for their money, they get universal healthcare and one of the best public education systems in the world that begins at daycare and continues into graduate school. So the major expenses most Americans save for or are made broke because of, are free to the Swedish. Does this make the Swedish lazy people who've stopped trying? No. Instead, they beat the pants off us in tests, because they are incredibly better educated on average than we are. They have a military but they also care about the status of their people. This is what I would tell a 14 year old studying about socialism: "No, it's not perfect, and neither is capitalism. Nothing is perfect and we all do our best and learn from our mistakes."

Do I want to move to Sweden or become a socialist? Nope. But I reject the statement, "America, love it or leave it." Because this is America, it is great, I say, "America, love it or change it."

That is worth another read ....... couldn't have said it better!

 

[Wifezilla]

In capitalism, people are rewarded for their hard efforts as well as for their cheating and stealing

Cheat and stealing are not capitalism. Capitalism is the free exchange of goods between informed individuals.

Fraud, theft, etc... are ABUSES of capitalism.​

 

[Msbear]

Yeah, Wifezilla

I agree. Our checks and balances system is majorly flawed... And because of greed, corrupt officials and people that have trusted for way too long... we are here now.

 

[VT Chick-lit]

Wifezilla said: Fraud, theft, etc... are ABUSES of capitalism

Fraud, theft, greed, bribery, abuse of power etc. . . are not only found in capitalist systems, these issues are also found in systems that espouse socialism, marxism, communism et al. These ills reflect more on the moral character of the people commiting them, than in the type of system under which they occur. In a democratic republic, we at least have the ability to vote them out, without the use of violence or the need for a coup. Not every country or system is so fortunate. As our system morphs into a hybrid of one of these other systems, it becomes more difficult to remove those who commit these abuses.​

 

[WalkingWolf]

I would think those embracing socialism would also embrace NAIS after all for socialism to work it means tracking, and collecting information on the populace to keep them in the system to balance the wealth. Otherwise free enterprise will try to break out in the form of black markets. Which thrive in every socialist country.

Some of us raise chickens to become independent, where is the independence in socialism? How many would like it if Uncle Sam sent out agents to collect your eggs for those who do not bother to take the time and effort. Remember this is exactly what they did in the USSR on every level. Yet the black market flourished and the political elite lived lavish life styles.

But I do admit socialism is successful. Well it is successful at population control as to almost every socialist country the populace is trying to leave.

 

[Wifezilla]

These ills reflect more on the moral character of the people commiting them, than in the type of system under which they occur.

Exactly

 

[andehens]

This is a true story that just happened, might reflect a bit on what is wrong today. My daughter's next door neighbor had the option of remaining employed or taking a layoff package which amounted to 5 weeks of pay. My daughter who is employed and has had to take a 27% paycut (7% the first time, 20% the second time) in order to remain employed said to her, "oh, keep your job, at least you have one!" The neighbor said "nah, no problem, the government will pay me when that runs out" And my daughter says to me "Mom, guess who is feeding her son most nights at dinner??!!!!!!!!"

 

[scbatz33]

I have a friend - we've known each other for 20 years - who is Norwegian. Norway is by our standards a "socialist" country. My friend went to school for free all the way through "college". She is a CPA. She has free health care. Her husband in in the navy. They have 3 boys - all her medical bills are covered by the government. She has free day care. She was on maternity leave at 3/4 pay for roughly 36 months straight because of how her boys were born. She never lost her job - in fact they had to keep it open for her.

All this sounds great, I'm sure. However, she can't change careers even if she wanted to because she picked this career her senior year and that is what she is trained for so that is what the government expects her to do. She has no CHOICE. She had to choose her life as a 18 year old.

She pays incredibly high taxes to cover all those services. She told me at one point almost half of their combined income goes to taxes.

I once made the mistake of sending her children Christmas presents. She told me never to do that again because the import duties on the toys that I paid maybe $30 for cost her over $150 in order to pick up!

There are always good and bad in any system/situation. My friend loves her country as I love mine. Both our homelands have wonderful things and not so nice things about them. For me, living somewhere that I have the choice/freedom to be who and what I want to be and the choice and freedom to change my mind nine zillion times before I die is far more important than the luxury of getting out of co-pays or college tuition.

Do I think we need better schools - yes. Do I think the infrastructure is not working well and in some areas is broken? Yes.

Do I think the system of elected officials and government as is is going now is broken and doing more harm than good everythime they try to "fix" things? OMG YES!

Do I think giving up my inalienable rights and freedoms is the best way to "fix" it? NO!

That folks, is the basis of this country's dilema.