- Thread starter
- #31
Quote:
I agree partially with this post, except for the fact that the OP was a good analogy. I've gotten that forward several times and always deleted it straightaway. Instead of using this as a way to explain a political concept to a young person, I'd use it as an illustration of how biased and sheltered people are, and how it's important to not believe everything that comes to you through an email forward.
I was taught about socialism and communism by people with this same mentality. Now as an adult, what I think when I look back on that teaching is how biased and incomplete it was. Here's an example. Imagine that in socialist nations, people sent similar forwards about straight capitalism. It might go something like this: "In capitalism, people are rewarded for their hard efforts as well as for their cheating and stealing. The only thing that matters is how much money you make and how much of it you can hide from the government so as to keep it all for yourself, while people that might have benefitted from social programs go hungry, sick, and uneducated." This email would be biased and unfair. That's now how it works in capitalism, and the original post is not how it works in socialism. Sure, we hear about the worst of the worst, like North Korea and Venezuela, while the best get brushed under the rug, like Sweden. We criticize North Korea's government for letting aid organizations (non-profits) feed its people while spending its money to build nuclear weapons (or at least, I criticize North Korea) while our own government does the exact same thing but to a lesser extent. And that's the danger of listening to emails like this one. So critical of what goes on in other nations but we can't see the planks in our own eyes.
When you hear the word socialism, as the quoted poster said there is no pure socialist nation. The socialist nations today are really capitalist societies that have installed social safety nets for their people. It's a LOT like America, except that the populace gains the benefits of taxes instead of mostly businesses. Socialism is not a contradiction of democracy. And democracy is the concept that America is proud of. Capitalism is completely different from democracy. What we criticize in nations like North Korea is dictatorship. And you could theoretically have a capitalist dictatorship.
Nations like Sweden, France, Great Britain, and Germany are capitalist with strong socialist underpinnings that they value tremendously. In Sweden, they pay 10% more income tax than we do in the United States. And for their money, they get universal healthcare and one of the best public education systems in the world that begins at daycare and continues into graduate school. So the major expenses most Americans save for or are made broke because of, are free to the Swedish. Does this make the Swedish lazy people who've stopped trying? No. Instead, they beat the pants off us in tests, because they are incredibly better educated on average than we are. They have a military but they also care about the status of their people. This is what I would tell a 14 year old studying about socialism: "No, it's not perfect, and neither is capitalism. Nothing is perfect and we all do our best and learn from our mistakes."
Do I want to move to Sweden or become a socialist? Nope. But I reject the statement, "America, love it or leave it." Because this is America, it is great, I say, "America, love it or change it."
although you make good points, I have to disagree.....
those countries you mentioned were only able to implement those practices because of American soldiers.........most of them would be speaking another language or been exterminated had it not been for our intervention and protection.
There are bad things in capitalism, but there are many good things as well. What you failed to mention was that many technological advances and medical breakthroughs came from capitalist countries where companies and individuals put forth the effort to make these discoveries to further their own companies and themselves as well as to benefit society. The majority of the people will not place the needs of the people above their own, however unfortunate, that is the reality. All countries suffer from greed and the desire to get ahead no matter how pure their motives may seem or equal their government is for their people. They want what's best for their people and place their country's needs above the needs of the rest of the world. There are too many examples of this throughout history to list here, but if you are as well versed on world government as you profess to be then I am sure you know this. The United States encourages people to excel at an individual level. No matter what the motives of the individual are, the results cannot be denied. The United States encourages the cream of the crop to rise. Unfortunately, those who are lacking in desire or ability are left behind, but not forgotten as we have created many safety nets and security systems to provide for all of our citizens. This may be a harsh reality but it is reality and because of that The United States has been able to save many innocent lives worldwide and keep floundering nations from being erased. There is no doubt and no denying that every nation you mentioned has benefited from The United States.....
I agree partially with this post, except for the fact that the OP was a good analogy. I've gotten that forward several times and always deleted it straightaway. Instead of using this as a way to explain a political concept to a young person, I'd use it as an illustration of how biased and sheltered people are, and how it's important to not believe everything that comes to you through an email forward.
I was taught about socialism and communism by people with this same mentality. Now as an adult, what I think when I look back on that teaching is how biased and incomplete it was. Here's an example. Imagine that in socialist nations, people sent similar forwards about straight capitalism. It might go something like this: "In capitalism, people are rewarded for their hard efforts as well as for their cheating and stealing. The only thing that matters is how much money you make and how much of it you can hide from the government so as to keep it all for yourself, while people that might have benefitted from social programs go hungry, sick, and uneducated." This email would be biased and unfair. That's now how it works in capitalism, and the original post is not how it works in socialism. Sure, we hear about the worst of the worst, like North Korea and Venezuela, while the best get brushed under the rug, like Sweden. We criticize North Korea's government for letting aid organizations (non-profits) feed its people while spending its money to build nuclear weapons (or at least, I criticize North Korea) while our own government does the exact same thing but to a lesser extent. And that's the danger of listening to emails like this one. So critical of what goes on in other nations but we can't see the planks in our own eyes.
When you hear the word socialism, as the quoted poster said there is no pure socialist nation. The socialist nations today are really capitalist societies that have installed social safety nets for their people. It's a LOT like America, except that the populace gains the benefits of taxes instead of mostly businesses. Socialism is not a contradiction of democracy. And democracy is the concept that America is proud of. Capitalism is completely different from democracy. What we criticize in nations like North Korea is dictatorship. And you could theoretically have a capitalist dictatorship.
Nations like Sweden, France, Great Britain, and Germany are capitalist with strong socialist underpinnings that they value tremendously. In Sweden, they pay 10% more income tax than we do in the United States. And for their money, they get universal healthcare and one of the best public education systems in the world that begins at daycare and continues into graduate school. So the major expenses most Americans save for or are made broke because of, are free to the Swedish. Does this make the Swedish lazy people who've stopped trying? No. Instead, they beat the pants off us in tests, because they are incredibly better educated on average than we are. They have a military but they also care about the status of their people. This is what I would tell a 14 year old studying about socialism: "No, it's not perfect, and neither is capitalism. Nothing is perfect and we all do our best and learn from our mistakes."
Do I want to move to Sweden or become a socialist? Nope. But I reject the statement, "America, love it or leave it." Because this is America, it is great, I say, "America, love it or change it."
although you make good points, I have to disagree.....
those countries you mentioned were only able to implement those practices because of American soldiers.........most of them would be speaking another language or been exterminated had it not been for our intervention and protection.
There are bad things in capitalism, but there are many good things as well. What you failed to mention was that many technological advances and medical breakthroughs came from capitalist countries where companies and individuals put forth the effort to make these discoveries to further their own companies and themselves as well as to benefit society. The majority of the people will not place the needs of the people above their own, however unfortunate, that is the reality. All countries suffer from greed and the desire to get ahead no matter how pure their motives may seem or equal their government is for their people. They want what's best for their people and place their country's needs above the needs of the rest of the world. There are too many examples of this throughout history to list here, but if you are as well versed on world government as you profess to be then I am sure you know this. The United States encourages people to excel at an individual level. No matter what the motives of the individual are, the results cannot be denied. The United States encourages the cream of the crop to rise. Unfortunately, those who are lacking in desire or ability are left behind, but not forgotten as we have created many safety nets and security systems to provide for all of our citizens. This may be a harsh reality but it is reality and because of that The United States has been able to save many innocent lives worldwide and keep floundering nations from being erased. There is no doubt and no denying that every nation you mentioned has benefited from The United States.....
