Soldier Fly Larvae illegal, raised on human waste?

[glib]

That's really gross and like you mentioned basically how mad cow disease happened and I'm sure I can speak for a lot of us when I say we love to eat our fresh eggs i just think that's disgusting

I don't know that mad cow applies to this, since mad cow was obtained by feeding cows a very unnatural diet (ground cow parts).

Unlike most of you, I think BSFL on human, pig and chicken waste is a resource that sooner or later will be fully exploited. I also have some suspicion about the logic of the cited papers. Have you seen chickens getting into cow pies? They destroy them, right? and they destroy them to get at each and every last fly larva. If it is so unhealthy to them why they do it?

So we are left to the possibility of having certain human parasites survive the trip through the BSFL, through the chicken, into the egg, survive hard boiling perhaps, and through the ph=1-3 human stomach. Extremely unlikely (make that zero if the egg is cooked), but even so, over time BSFL production streams can be sent through optimized channels. Say, if human waste is the feedstock, you could send it through fish in aquaculture. You could also apply a simple label "cook well" to such eggs.

 

[Outta Here]

Thanks for the input on the other side of the coin--"sustainability." There are many very interesting articles about the growing practice of using biosolids as fertilizer and animal feed as an important
Here's one of them https://nationalpost.com/news/world...te-being-turned-into-high-quality-animal-feed.

Here's one that describes the practice, including the pros and cons, in the United States: https://modernfarmer.com/2014/07/stink-human-poop-fertilizer/.

Evidently, human manure is used after undergoing treatment here in the US, unlike in some other countries, where "this practice is often carried out in an unregulated and unsafe manner in developing countries." World Health Organization.
In the US, the Sierra Club has voices these concerns, even about post-treatment human waste:
“Urban sludges are a highly complex, unpredictable biologically active mixture of organic material and human pathogens, some of which are resistant to antibiotics or cannot be destroyed through composting sludge can contain thousands of industrial chemicals, including dozens of carcinogens, hormone disrupting chemicals, toxic metals, dioxins, radionuclides and other persistent bioaccumulative poisons,” warns the Sierra Club. In 2009, an EPA survey of biosolids produced by 74 randomly selected treatment plants found traces of pharmaceuticals, steroids, flame retardants and chemicals in their samples,..."
But like you, I have wondered how likely dangerous pathogens can to survive the trip between the dried worm, through the chicken, into the frying pan, and my breakfast eggs?

 

[Outta Here]

Well, I think I've gotten to the bottom of this topic about the legality and health issue of worms (both black soldier and mealworms) sold in the United States. I did wonder why, if they are illegal, could they be sold here? Looks like they can't even get into the country without having FDA approval. I also noted that most brands, even Grubbly, do also use international farms. I also received word from a commercial feed producer that it is legal to include BSFL and mealworms in chicken feed. Case Closed.
So thanks all for helping in the research! I'm delighted that these wonderful chicken-luring treats are NOT ILLEGAL, NOT RAISED ON HUMAN WASTE! Yeay!!!!

Here's what Emily from FlyGrubs had to say:

"As Americans, we specifically chose to raise FLYGRUBS on farms in China because of its advanced methods and centuries of experience in producing insects. We would love to source FLYRGUBS from within the USA, however, this is just not possible. We can't source enough to satisfy the demand, unfortunately.

To ensure we deliver the highest quality product to our customers, we closely monitor each phase of the BSF lifecycle to ensure quality and consistency for our customers and follow strict regulatory standards, enforced by US regulatory agencies.
Please feel safe knowing that FLYGRUBS are fully USDA and FDA approved. There are very strict rules in place when it comes to importing dried black soldier fly larvae into the United States. Our suppliers are registered with the FDA and every shipment comes with certificates of origin and veterinary health certificates. This documentation needs to match the stipulations on our import permit. Otherwise, the shipment will not be allowed into the country. All of the documentation has to be checked and verified by the FDA, US CBP, and USDA, along with physical inspections and checks that are also carried out on a regular basis. We also test for MDV, AIV, and IBV. Our goal is to go the extra mile for our customers and their pets.

We don't just sell the product, we also use it! Our chickens LOVE FLYGRUBS and we look forward to hearing about how your ladies love them too!

 

[U_Stormcrow]

@Veelee I'd like to offer thanks for your efforts in researching this/running it down for others. While I don't personally feed BSFL (tried once, couldn't get a BSFL larvae composter to work in my temps, and haven't loaded it up for this year to try again) or mealworms as treats for my birds, there are a lot of people who do.

I have some sense of the effort you put into researching it for those interested or concerned, and wanted to recognize the effort. Its been informative. Thank you again.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Thanks for the input on the other side of the coin--"sustainability." There are many very interesting articles about the growing practice of using biosolids as fertilizer and animal feed as an important
Here's one of them https://nationalpost.com/news/world...te-being-turned-into-high-quality-animal-feed.

Here's one that describes the practice, including the pros and cons, in the United States: https://modernfarmer.com/2014/07/stink-human-poop-fertilizer/.

Evidently, human manure is used after undergoing treatment here in the US, unlike in some other countries, where "this practice is often carried out in an unregulated and unsafe manner in developing countries." World Health Organization.
In the US, the Sierra Club has voices these concerns, even about post-treatment human waste:
“Urban sludges are a highly complex, unpredictable biologically active mixture of organic material and human pathogens, some of which are resistant to antibiotics or cannot be destroyed through composting sludge can contain thousands of industrial chemicals, including dozens of carcinogens, hormone disrupting chemicals, toxic metals, dioxins, radionuclides and other persistent bioaccumulative poisons,” warns the Sierra Club. In 2009, an EPA survey of biosolids produced by 74 randomly selected treatment plants found traces of pharmaceuticals, steroids, flame retardants and chemicals in their samples,..."
But like you, I have wondered how likely dangerous pathogens can to survive the trip between the dried worm, through the chicken, into the frying pan, and my breakfast eggs?

See "Milorganite", which for years was one of the most popular fertilizers for gardeners, owing to a very successful advertising campaign. product of the Milwaukee Metropolitan Sewage District. Similar products exist regionally.

as to the rest, "the dosage is the poison". Sierra Club has an agenda, its to their benefit to talk about trace amounts of dangerous or icky sounding things. EP also has an agenda. Its an exercise in line drawing, and rarely does anyone provide the data to help a consumer inform themselves (nor do we always have the time to do so, and thus must rely upon the opinions of self-proclaimed experts. You rolls your dice, and you take your chances - but yeah, I like to look at the table odds, first, whenever I can.

 

[Outta Here]

@Veelee I'd like to offer thanks for your efforts in researching this/running it down for others. While I don't personally feed BSFL (tried once, couldn't get a BSFL larvae composter to work in my temps, and haven't loaded it up for this year to try again) or mealworms as treats for my birds, there are a lot of people who do.

I have some sense of the effort you put into researching it for those interested or concerned, and wanted to recognize the effort. Its been informative. Thank you again.

Awww, thank you!!!

 

[Bwelshclan]

Researching this morning:
Here's one article about transmission of parasites to humans using worms farmed on feces to feed their animals:
"Black soldier fly (Hermetia illucens) larvae can be reared on almost all organic matters and may be used as a source for animal feed. However, the risk of disease transmission is high when animals are fed larvae or prepupae raised on waste materials that may contain potentially infectious pathogens. We qualitatively examined the effect of larval intestine extracts on the coccidian parasites Eimeria nieschulzi and Eimeria tenella and on eggs of the nematode Ascaris suum. Furthermore, we focused on the question of whether the persistent parasite stages (oocysts and eggs) would be digested, pass through living larvae, or attach to the larval surface. Neither living black soldier fly larvae nor black soldier fly larval intestine extracts had any effect on oocysts or eggs of the studied parasites. Thus, untreated H. illucens larvae as animal feed pose a risk of disease transmission to animals and humans, and a simple larval washing step is not sufficient for total removal of parasites."
Whole article: https://meridian.allenpress.com/jfp...ransmission-of-Animal?redirectedFrom=fulltext

I also found this from FDA" "Rearing BSFL on chicken manure and feeding them to fish or chickens or humans is thus not allowed in the USA at this time. " If it's illegal to feed BSFL raised on chicken manure, I would surely think you couldn't use worms raised on human waste! Whole article: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5664030/

But BSFL raised on food waste, like Grubbly Farms sells, is FDA approved for chickens.
https://randyschickenblog.squarespa...-fly-grubs-feed-your-flock-amp-save-the-world

Still researching. Any documentation on the topic (not just that your chickens love them--mine do, too!) greatly appreciated.

Does drying not kill the parasites?

 

[Red Mangrove]

Turning poop into maggots is probably one of the most reasonable things humans have ever done with their excrement

 

[ForFlocksSake]

I've just sent another message to the manufacturer, whose website and insert shows the American flag and claims to be FDA approved, using only traceable food waste. I've asked them again to provide documentation that since they are actually farmed in China, and China openly admits to programs growning worms with human waste, that these were not. Also I've asked again for documentation that they are indeed approved by FDA. When I get the results, I'll reveal the brand. But I've just learned that even well known American companies (like Manna Pro) that sell their mealworms through Tractor Supply have them farmed in China...

Our local library keeps chickens and has story time once a week for littles. Afterwards they give all the kids a little container of mealworms to feed the chickens. The amount of times I’ve seen a toddler chowing down on what they thought were snacks for them…

It’s even worse now than it was before I knew this was a possibility

 

[ForFlocksSake]

Does drying not kill the parasites?

Curious about this too.