Someone please HELP!!!!!!!

[JensChickies]

I don't really know enough about the liver to know if that bile or digested food and bile. That other thread you found gives me hope in case I every get one with a suspected impacted gizzard. FYI, you're way ahead of that poster because you can tube feed, so you can very safely give your hen the amount of fluids and calories she needs. The link above also says this (I bolded and changed text color of something I found interesting): [COLOR=5E86B8][COLOR=5E86B8]"ORAL NUTRITIONAL SUPPLEMENTS[/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20]Below are listed some of the oral nutritional supplements[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20]that can be gavage-fed to debilitated birds. Various[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20]hand-feeding formulas are on the market and, as a[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20]whole, are far superior to the homemade formulas used[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20]decades ago that contained monkey biscuits, peanut butter[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20]and ground seeds. Commercially available hand-feeding[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20]formulas for baby birds are often utilized in the treatment[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20]of sick and debilitated adult birds. The quantity[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20]that can be fed at one time to a sick bird is greatly reduced from that of baby birds. On the average, a baby[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20]parrot can accommodate 10% of its body weight per[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20]feeding due to the elasticity of the crop and its rapid[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20]emptying. Adult birds have a greatly decreased crop[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20]capacity, averaging 3% of their body weight. Additionally,[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20]sick birds are less tolerant of food in the crop and care[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20]must be taken to avoid regurgitation and/or aspiration.[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20]A sick or debilitated bird should always[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20]have its[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20]hydration corrected prior to attempting[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20]to initiate[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20]oral gavage-feeding.[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20]Some formulas that are used and the indications for[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20]these are summarized below. None of these formulas is[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20]indicated in the presence of ileus. Many ill birds are captive-raised and were hand-fed, and these patients may[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20]respond to hand-feeding techniques[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=5E86B8][COLOR=5E86B8][COLOR=5E86B8](Fig 7.12)[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20]. This facilitates[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20][COLOR=231F20]both feeding and medication administration.[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR]
[COLOR=A52A2A]Carbohydrate Supplement[/COLOR]

[COLOR=A52A2A]A simple carbohydrate powder (fructose and malt dextran) can be mixed with water, Tyrode’s solution or Normosol-R to make a non-viscous tube-feeding solution. This is useful for birds to resolve crop stasis because the thin consistency of the carbohydrate supplement mixture is more digestible than regular hand-feeding formulas. It also is useful for hypoglycemic patients or those with primaryliver disease. Another similar product is recommended for patients with primary hypoglycemia or for birds needing additional calories provided as highly digestible carbohydrates. Following rehydration in sick birds, the liver needs adequate carbohydrates to carry out its functions, so carbohydrates are next in line as nutriceuticals for ill birds. Carbohydrates are generally followed by a more complex oral nutritional formula within 24 to 48 hours."[/COLOR] [COLOR=000000]Probably worth looking into a way to get simple carbs into her.[/COLOR] [COLOR=000000]-Kathy[/COLOR]

Good information Kathy! You think the pet store carries the simple carb formulas?

 

[JensChickies]

In that other thread the lady was giving her yogurt and olive oil. It worked for her bird. I have ready so many things about yogurt though. Mine still has an appetite. She will eat her favorite treats if I let her, but I only give them to see if she still wants to eat. Is it possible that a crop/gizzard impaction is kind of the same as being constipated in humans?? Dawg said apple sauce is a natural laxative?? But I dunno lol. Just speculating.

 

[JujuMetric]

Wow, this doesn't sound good! I hope your chicken gets better.

 

[JensChickies]

Wow, this doesn't sound good! I hope your chicken gets better. 

I know. Me too. She's improved since yesterday....her crop went down since I started tube feeding and she wants to eat. Not out of the woods, I am not sure if she will get out of the woods, but if sure hope she gets better.

 

[casportpony]

In that other thread the lady was giving her yogurt and olive oil. It worked for her bird. I have ready so many things about yogurt though. Mine still has an appetite. She will eat her favorite treats if I let her, but I only give them to see if she still wants to eat. Is it possible that a crop/gizzard impaction is kind of the same as being constipated in humans?? Dawg said apple sauce is a natural laxative?? But I dunno lol. Just speculating.

The instructions on the bag of Kaytee say to give infant apple sauce for crop stasis. FYI, Kaytee is what I tube the majority of mine.

Source: http://www.kaytee.com/products/exact-hand-feeding-baby-bird.php
TECHNICAL FEATURES

• exact’s balanced, high-nutrient formula helps babies grow faster, wean earlier and develop better, brighter plumage.
• When used properly, exact will not cause crop slow-down
• exact Hand Feeding Formula contains probiotics to encourage a healthy population of intestinal microorganisms. The selected species have been chosen specifically for their vitality, stability, and overall benefits to a bird’s system.
• Digestive enzymes (amylase and protease) are included to insure adequate digestion of carbohydrates and proteins. These enzymes are of particular value in the newly hatched baby or in a bird experiencing digestive difficulties.
• exact Hand Feeding Formula has compatible tastes and ingredients with exact Conversion and exact adult daily diets reducing digestive upsets during weaning, or when pulling young from the nest of exact fed parents.
• With DHA, an Omega-3 fatty acid for development of heart, brain, and visual functions
• High-Nutrient Formuladeveloped for the needs of Baby Birds
• Babies develop better feathering & brighter plumage
• Trusted by Avian Veterinarians & Breeders
• Babies grow faster & wean earlier

SPECIAL NOTES FOR PREPARATION

• IMPORTANT – DO NOT REUSE MIXED FORMULA!! Discard and mix fresh at each feeding.
• For hatch to 2 days old - formula should be made in small quantities and thoroughly stirred before feeding. Separation at this concentration is expected and is not a problem at this early stage because primary requirements are for water and water soluble nutrients. After chick is two days old, the food concentration must be increased (see feeding chart).
• Microwaving should be avoided. Microwaving can create “hot spots” in the formula and increase the likelihood of accidental crop burns. If required, limit microwaving (on high) to no more than 5 seconds per ½ cup of mixed formula at a time. Be sure to follow this with vigorous stirring before retesting the temperature and feeding. Cover large batches of formula while microwaving to avoid a moisture loss. STIR FORMULA THROUGHLY TO AVOID POTENTIAL OF BURNING THE CROP. Always test formula for proper temperature before feeding.

STORAGE INSTRUCTIONS

After opening, use the food within 30 to 45 days. Reseal package and store in a cool, dry location. Refrigerate or freeze for extended storage.Baby birds should be fed on a routine schedule allowing the chick’s crop to empty (or nearly empty) between feedings and to determine if bird is being fed the right amount. This prevents any food remaining in the crop too long and possibly spoiling. If the time between crop emptying suddenly increases, and the crop appears to be slowing down, observe the chick closely. See “IMPORTANT NOTES” regarding crop-slow down.

1. Feed mixture with a clean, disinfected syringe, spoon, tube, or other comfortable method. A separate implement should be used for each baby to prevent spread of disease.
2. Dispense food along with the chick’s feeding response (rythmic bobbing motion). This is more natural and decreases the likelihood of formula being inhaled.
3. Feed until the chick’s crop is nicely rounded or it refuses any more food, whichever comes first. Do not overfeed or regurgitation may occur. Generally, each meal should consist of a volume equivalent to 10-12% of the bird’s body weight.
4. Clean and sanitize feeding equipment after use. Clean any spilled food from the chick and change bedding after each feeding. Good hygiene is critical for a baby bird’s health.

exact Hand Feeding Formulas are designed to be the only food for baby birds. Additions to the diet may include fruits and vegetables (such as strained baby foods) but should not exceed 20% of the total diet. No additional vitamin or mineral supplements should be added.
MONITORING A HAND FED BABY BIRD

• Monitoring weight gain and loss is the best way to identify a problem before it becomes visibly obvious. Weigh and record the weight of each baby bird every morning before the first feeding. Kaytee exact Weight Chart
• A healthy chick should gain weight every day until it begins the weaning process. If weight gain stops, but weight is maintained, watch the bird closely. Loss of weight indicates a problem and should be investigated immediately. Call your avian veterinarian for more information.
• An otherwise healthy bird may not gain weight if it is not receiving enough nutrients. This could happen if the hand feeding formula is mixed too thin (contains too much water), if the formula is diluted with other ingredients, if the bird is not fed enough, or does not get enough food at each feeding.

IMPORTANT NOTES

• DIET CHANGE: For babies previously fed another hand feeding preparation, including any other exact Hand Feeding Formula, a minimum of 24 to 48 hours is recommended for the dietary changes. During this period, both products should be prepared separately (as directed) and mixed together, with the exact Hand Feeding Formula slowly being increased in proportion until the previous diet has been eliminated. An immediate conversion to exact Hand Feeding Formula may cause crop slow-down due to the dietary change. Use a more dilute formula the first couple of feedings in an attempt prevent this.
• CROP SLOW-DOWN: If crop slow-down should occur, first check for proper environmental temperature as this is a frequent cause of crop problems. Then mix equal parts of exact Hand Feeding Formula and infant applesauce or provide additional water by preparing exact at the ratio of one part exact to two or three parts water. Provide this mixture for approximately 24 hours and then slowly return to the normal concentration of exact over an additional 24 hour period. During this time, massage the chick’s crop gently to break up any food aggregates that may develop. Never massage the crop when it is more than half full. Allow the crop to empty before feeding again. This method will quickly allow the gastrointestinal tract to stabilize and become fully functional again. The appearance of dark green droppings in a hand fed baby may indicate a temporary shut-down of crop emptying (or the lack of food in the digestive system). If this occurs and the crop contains food, the rate of crop emptying should be immediately evaluated. If no improvement is noted within 36 hours, professional assistance is advised.
• Volume of up to 15% body weight per meal may be provided, but may induce regurgitation in some birds. If regurgitation occurs due to overfeeding, stop feeding, clean food off baby and do not handle. Reduce meal volume at next feeding.

WEANING INSTRUCTIONS

To encourage the weaning process, exact Conversion

diets should be offered when “exploration” begins. When the baby bird is fully feathered, offer exact Conversion diet or an adult daily diet of exact Natural

or exact Rainbow

in a clean food cup in addition to routine hand feeding. The baby bird will slowly begin to prefer these new forms of the food. Fresh water must be provided at all times. Prolonged use of hand feeding formula beyond the normal weaning age, or excessive feeding, may result in problems such as obesity.A chick will lose up to 10% of its body weight during weaning as it begins to eat on its own. Birds wean easily onto exact Conversion diets or exact adult daily diets because of compatible taste and ingredients.
Ingredients:

Ground Corn, Ground Wheat, Corn Gluten Meal, Ground Oat Groats, Wheat Middlings, Soy Oil, Dried Whole Egg, Soy Protein Isolate, Dried Beet Pulp, Soybean Meal, Ground Flax Seed, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, L-Lysine, Wheat Germ Meal, Brewers Dried Yeast, Vitamin A Supplement, Salt, Algae Meal (source of DHA), L-Arginine, Fructooligosaccharide, Choline Chloride, DL-Methionine, Potassium Chloride, Yeast Extract, Propionic Acid (a preservative), Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Mixed Tocopherols (a preservative), L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Manganous Oxide, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of vitamin K activity), Niacin, Rosemary Extract, Citric Acid, Ethoxyquin (a preservative), Calcium Pantothenate, Copper Sulfate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Cholecalciferol (source of vitamin D3), Folic Acid, Beta-Carotene, Calcium Iodate, Biotin, Cobalt Carbonate, Sodium Selenite, Dried A. oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus subtilis Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus licheniformis Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus subtilis Fermentation Product. Allergen information: Manufactured in a facility that processes peanuts and other tree nuts.
Guaranteed Analysis:



Crude Protein (min.)....................22.0%
Crude Fat (min.).........................9.0%
Crude Fiber (max.).......................5.0%
Moisture (max.).........................10.0%
Omega-3 Fatty Acids (min.)...............0.5%
Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) (min.)........0.05%
Protease (min.)..........................0.2 CSU(1)/g
Amylase (min.)...........................0.4 SLU(2)/g
Total Bacillus Species(3)(min.)....250,000 CFU(4)/g

(1) CSU - Casein Solubilization Units
(2) SLU - Starch Liquefying Units
(3) B. licheniformis, B. subtilis
(4) CFU - Colony Forming Units


-Kathy

 

[casportpony]

In that other thread the lady was giving her yogurt and olive oil. It worked for her bird. I have ready so many things about yogurt though. Mine still has an appetite. She will eat her favorite treats if I let her, but I only give them to see if she still wants to eat. Is it possible that a crop/gizzard impaction is kind of the same as being constipated in humans?? Dawg said apple sauce is a natural laxative?? But I dunno lol. Just speculating.

Forgot to say... I wouldn't do yogurt. Good point about gizzard impaction and constipation... Water helps people, and it's also used in very large volume (via IV line), along with tubed mineral oil in horses, but horses can't vomit, so there is almost zero risk that they will aspirate oil. Rumor has it that something sold as "crop binding capsule" is actually just colace. I'm just thinking out-loud and I have never tried it, nor do I know if it's appropriate or not, but maybe?

-Kathy

 

[JensChickies]

Forgot to say... I wouldn't do yogurt.  Good point about gizzard impaction and constipation... Water helps people, and it's also used in very large volume (via IV line), along with tubed mineral oil in horses, but horses can't vomit, so there is almost zero risk that they will aspirate oil. Rumor has it that something sold as "crop binding capsule" is actually just colace. I'm just thinking out-loud and I have never tried it, nor do I know if it's appropriate or not, but maybe?

-Kathy

Hmmm I will have to look up the "crop binding capsules"

 

[casportpony]

Quote: The place that sells them, Twin Cities Poultry, allegedly won't tell anyone what's in them. I think that's probably true sine they wouldn't tell me what was in one of their wormers.

She's gonna need some calories, so I'd look into getting some Kaytee or maybe making your own out of infant foods, like applesauce and rice "whatever" (no kids, so I have no clue, lol). Petsmart and Petco only have Kaytee Exact.

-Kathy

 

[JensChickies]

The place that sells them, Twin Cities Poultry, allegedly won't tell anyone what's in them. I think that's probably true sine they wouldn't tell me what was in one of their wormers.

She's gonna need some calories, so I'd look into getting some Kaytee or maybe making your own out of infant foods, like applesauce and rice "whatever" (no kids, so I have no clue, lol). Petsmart and Petco only have Kaytee Exact.

-Kathy

Right now my only option is what petco/pet smart has. You like the kaytee exact and have used it, but is that too much for her?? Should I go get some baby food then?

 

[casportpony]

Kaytee is what my vet has me use. The carb bit I quoted is something I read a long time ago, but didn't give it much thought until today. From what little I understand, getting them hydrated *first* is most important, which I think you've done, right? Yesterday she wasn't pooping, but now she is. I have infant applesauce, but I haven't used it, even when I've treated slow crops. With mine, the fluids/fluids and Kaytee were enough to flush the crops. A few exceptions... while their crops did eventually clear, they did die, and the necropsies revealed tumors that were obstructing the intestines of two and the third had an egg that was stuck and had grown into a nasty 1 pound mass (have pictures of that), so nothing could have saved them.

-Kathy