Sour crop support needed

[cnj-tx50]

Little Miss also seemed much better this morning. While her chest was flat there was not any swollen area, just her crop and it was smaller than a golf ball. She is eating everything! I did add the meat baby food yesterday and I gave her a small spoonful of oatmeat this morning with more baby food and yogurt. I feed her a little more in the serving at 8:30 and when I checked her at 11:00 and to give her more to eat she was doing the head movement thing that she was doing to begin with. Like she is trying to get something down. I felt her chest and it was not squishy but firm. I had to leave and have been able to check her again until now and it still seems full. S I quess we will see what tomorrow brings. I hope tht I did not start the oatmeal too soon and caused her more problems!

 

[cromulo]

I just read this thread and I'm glad that the chickies in question are doing well. It seems like there are a lot of sour crops popping up lately. I thought it might be helpful to mention that the tube that Ultasol got from a veterinarian is called a "foley" or "red rubber catheter." They are very useful for putting things in and pulling things out of the crop and are soft and rubbery so won't hurt the bird (you do have to be careful that you are entering the esophagus and not the trachea) and you can purchase them from many medical supply companies.

 

[Pampered Hen]

Thyme's crop was full and squishy again this morning. I decided to leave it be and not force her to regurgitate. She worried me this morning because she just sat down after I let her out from her cramped accommodation of the cat crate. She was not interested in food or water. Appetite and energy level have improved around late morning. I upgraded her living space to a 2 by 3-foot dog crate which I was lucky to find for a good price on craigs list. I will try to install a roost for her, so she can sleep off the ground. The feathers around her vent got pretty spoiled from her night time pooping while sitting on the floor. Food must be moving through her system because she is pooping. I'm just not sure what to make of the full crop... Can a chicken live a normal life with a distended crop that never totally empties overnight? I'm aware that there could be and underlying cause that I just can't diagnose. Any suggestions are welcome as usual. In the mean time, she will be a house chicken with short visits to snowy outdoors when it is not so freezing cold. I'm sure she has lost some of her cold hardiness by now...

 

[Quillgirl]

Pampered,

You seem to keep feeding Thyme foods that are hard on her digestion and promote sour crop: bread, cereal, flax seed, oatmeal, and other carbs and grains turn into sugars in the crop due to enzyme action, which feeds fermentation and sour crop. If you want to give her the best chance to recover you are going to have to limit her to yogurt, scrambled/mashed cooked egg, baby food meat, probiotics, and apple cider vinegar water. Try 3 days with no carbs/grains/seeds of any kind and no sugary food and just see what happens. She sounds as if she is becoming lethargic and not doing well. Is her breathing ok? If she is raspy she might have inhaled some fluid during one of the vomit sessions...

 

[Pampered Hen]

Quillgirl: Thyme was a rambunctious bugger this afternoon

scratching about her cage getting all the newspaper mixed up with her water. Her main fare today was yogurt and hard boiled egg with added probiotics a teaspoon of canned cat food (not sure if that is ok for chickens, but she LOVED it) - and some oatmeal... I will honor your advice and put her on a low carb diet. I was just so worried about her calorie intake that I started giving her more starchy items. Would you agree to add some olive oil to the yogurt for added calories? Do you have some advice on what to do if I find her crop still full tomorrow morning? Should I have her regurgitate? Also, should I let her eat as much as she wants? I have been keeping the portions on the smallish side to prevent stuffing too much into her crop in one sitting.
Her energy/activity level seems to start out low in the morning and then steadily rises until evening. I put her outside this afternoon for a little while to catch some fresh air and stretch her legs. I was surprised that she opted to hang out by our front door instead of going over to the run to meet her flockmates. She actually followed me around. We are getting way too close... if she doesn't get out of this I'm in for another major heartbreak.

 

[ipana]

Pampered Hen...I get the name here...you're talking about Thyme, aren't you?! If she's not pampered, no one is! Anyway, I've been through the sour crop thing with my chicken. Fortunately, she responded pretty quickly. I noticed the squishy crop on Saturday but didn't know what it was. Then, when I found out, I brought her inside on Sunday morning and she was able to go back home on Thursday about noon. She responded to the wine treatment. I had caused her to vomit on Sunday and again on Monday a couple of times. Then, I read about the wine from upthecreek. I went to the grocery to get the wine and had a friend come over to help hold her. She finally "downed" about 3 cc on Tuesday afternoon. By Tuesday night, she "expelled" her poop so that it was like a minor spray across the bathroom floor. (That was a wonderful thing even though it was a mess.) I felt then that it had worked and for once, I was right. I started her on baby food, applesauce and yogurt. After 24 hours, I added very small amount of chick starter (1 tsp) to the applesauce. Wednesday was the same fare until about noon. I then put a tsp of her crumbles into the applesauce to get them soggy for her afternoon/evening feedings. (I fed her about every 3 hours up until 8 pm when it was "lights out so mama could rest!") She just kept getting better and better so on Thursday, back outside she went. That timing was good, too, because our very cold weather had taken a break and it was much warmer outside...instead of high in the upper 20's, it was in the low 50's. She didn't really have any relapses and I'm thankful for that.

I didn't go back through the posts to read whether or not you tried the wine. If you haven't, you may want to try it. If you can let her vomit as much as possible and then get 3 cc down her, then no other food for several hours to let the wine work. You will need someone to hold her and even with that, it is not easy. Put a little wine at a time into her mouth to let her swallow it. She won't like it but then, think cough syrup as a kid. We didn't like it, but it worked.

Your efforts for this special little bird is absolutely refreshing. The people who have worked with their birds and this problem are indeed my kind of people. These little creatures have feelings and can think. They also become part of the family! Hang in there. I'll keep following the posts to see how you're getting along. I don't know what else to offer as suggestion. I just hope that something finally kicks in for Thyme to return to her good health.

 

[Quillgirl]

Low carbs, yes. Oil is ok, but not too much or it'll cause squirts. My only issue with wine is that it has alcohol in it and chickens don't have a liver that can metabolize alcohol so be careful or you will have alcohol toxicity. ACV does the same thing without the alcohol (remember, wine become vinegar when it sits long enough.) You are simply trying to rebalance the crop pH so that it doesn't support yeast and fermentation. The bird is pooping already, so causing her to poop more isn't really the goal here. The difference between baby food meat and cat food is salt and additives. Baby food has less of both and is more gentle to the system.

I can tell you love thyme very much, and I hope she gets better for you.

 

[cnj-tx50]

Little Miss seems so much better this morning. I started yesterday soaking some crumble - only 1 spoonful - and added that to the yogurt and baby food or egg. I am planning on doing the same thing today. She ate four times yesterday and her crop looked normal this morning but with something still there. I also added some applesauce today. Maybe only a few more days.

Quillgirl and Ipana thank you so much for your help and support. It has been so nice having someone follow this thru.

Pamperedhen - I hope that you can get your girl on the right track. The not feeding was hard at first but I think that was where I went wrong the first time.

 

[Pampered Hen]

cnj-tx50 - So happy about your progress with your hen!

Ipana and Quillgirl - Thanks for your concern, suggestions and support! It really helps not being all alone with this.

Being worried about the potential toxicity of the wine alcohol, I will abstain from the treatment (for now).

Thyme's crop was less full that last night, but still squishy this morning. She pooped over night and also this morning and greeted me with APPETITE. She got couple teaspoons lowfat yogurt, 1/3 boiled egg, vitamins and Lactobacillus cultures. She is in good spirits and I think she is getting bored too. There is really nothing much for her to do in that crate. So if the weather "warms" up (when lucky this would be the high 20ies) I will let her out for a while to exercise her legs.
One thing that has me somewhat worried are the chest bobs (from a human perspective one would think she tries to swallow something). I THINK those bobs are caused by contractions of the cervical muscle that runs from throat over chest to the abdomen. I THINK the contractions are in lieu of the crop peristaltic. I THINK the contractions are voluntary and the hen can stopped them at will. I DON"T KNOW if this is true or not... what else could it be?

I decided to make Thyme puke a bit today to find out whether her crop is getting sour again. If it is, I will try to empty her crop as much as possible and then give her ACV water and let her sit for a few hours and see what happens. If the vomits smells "ok" (as in not sour or fermented) I will leave her be and continue feeding low carb stuff.

 

[Quillgirl]

good to hear, cnj!