Sour Crop?

[Wyorp Rock]

Hi Welcome To BYC

How are your chicks doing?

I'm sorry to hear about your loss. Can you post some photos of your brooder set-up?

If you have a light on 24/7 for your chicks, they will eat/drink all night - that is fine, a lot of people raise chicks this way no problem. Chicks crops will be at various stages of full/empty with a light. It's very hard to gauge crop issues this way unless they exhibit symptoms like lethargy, going off feed, reduction in poop and possibly have a sour smell to their breath. Chicks that have light all the time really do need to have food/water available. Provide grit free choice (in a separate container).

Medicated Chick Starter - in the U.S. generally contains a medication called Amprolium. This is a Coccidiostat that is a Thiamine (B1) blocker. It is used to limit the growth of Coccidiosis until chicks can start building resistance. Coccidiosis is a protozoa that lives in different parts of the intestines of chicken. Chicks can still have an overload of Cocci while on medicated feed - wet, warm conditions are a breeding ground for the oocysts.

Poultry grit is usually found at most feed stores that sell poultry feed and supplies. Poultry grit is crushed granite (it comes in chick and adult size). Chicks and adults need some type of grit, whether purchased or found in the soil (course sand, small rocks/pebbles) in order to process foods properly. Grit (small sharp stones) is stored in the gizzard and used to grind up food. Cracked corn is not grit - a chicken would need stones to grind up corn. +++++++In the southern U.S. "grits" is made out of ground corn that we humans eat mainly for breakfasthttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grits+++

Please take all this in the good spirit I give. I do not mean to be snarky at all. It's important that we all learn and share with one another. There is so much information "out there" that things can get confused and misunderstood.

Please keep us posted on how your little ones are doing. Would love to see some photos too

Chick care basics:
http://www.the-chicken-chick.com/2012/03/baby-chick-basics-what-you-need-to-know.html
Coccidiosis:
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/poultry/coccidiosis/overview-of-coccidiosis-in-poultry

Poultry grit that can usually be found at feed stores - sometimes you may need to order the "chick grit"

Grits that we humans prepare for breakfast (makes a good supper side dish too!)
BTW - chickens love prepared grits too

 

[Glenda Heywoodo]

Well here is my advise.
try doing away with the medicated feed by using 1/2 medicated feed and 1/2 regular chick feed.
HOLD OFF ON THE CRACKED CORN.
You should be able to buy chicken grit or pigeon grit at a feed store.
tractor supply has it and most all feed stores any ways around here.
YES YOU NEED GRIT. Search till you find it.
and no corn is not grit. It only tends to fatten the chicken eating it. at 9% protein value.
IF NOT USING GRIT The chickens will have impacted crops and die.
Also when you use ACV besure it is Braggs or Heinz unpasteurized ACV sold at most all walmarts these days.
Glenda L Heywood Cassville Missouri

 

[Glenda Heywoodo]

Well you live in Missouri Also. welcome to BYC
May I suggest what I always did for the chicks and adult chickens
My WET MASH PROBIOTIC RECIPE
FOR ONE CHICK USE THIS
2 TBSP OF DRY MASH OR CRUMBLES
4 TBSP OF MILK
1 TSP OF DRY FLAX SEED
2TBSP OF PLAIN YOUGART
MIX ALL GOOD
AND ADD A LITTLE MILK (if needed) TILL IT IS LIKE COKKIE DOUGH
NOT SLOPPY as chickens do not like it sloppy on their beaks.
FEED THIS FOR TWO WEEKS 4 TIMES A WEEK.
THEN 2 TIMES A WEEK FOR LIFE.
MULTIPLY AMT TIMES THE AMOUNT OF CHICKS FEEDING

WHEN THEY BECOME ADULTS DOUBLE THE RECIPE FOR AN ADULT CHICKEN
Glenda L Heywood Cassville Missouri

 

[Linda Kolosik]

The chicken I put in isolation yesterday, looks much better this morning but her crop did not go down. I put her back with her sisters today, she seemed very happy to be back with the flock.
everyone seems to be doing fine this morning, i did not see any other large crops on an other chickens.
I don't know what ACV is?
thank you everyone for all your help

 

[Wyorp Rock]

The chicken I put in isolation yesterday, looks much better this morning but her crop did not go down. I put her back with her sisters today, she seemed very happy to be back with the flock.
everyone seems to be doing fine this morning, i did not see any other large crops on an other chickens.
I don't know what ACV is?
thank you everyone for all your help

Are these chicks outside?
Do they still have light 24/7?

"ACV" is Apple Cider Vinegar. You had mentioned in your opening post that you put vinegar in the water. Organic or unpasteurized vinegar with the "mother" should be used, not "distilled".

 

[RoosterCogburn7]

The problem with a ballooned out crop, is it usually a genetic problem with the bird that won't get better. It gets bigger, as they cannot process the food their crop and it piles up and feels like a balloon. That is probably why you found one dead. I don't recommend things like baking soda, as that is a good way to watch a bird explode. It would be like trying to process alkaselzter or rice. To be blunt, birds can't fart. Eventually they would explode. It is the reason most wedding parties throw birdseed these days, to not be cruel to the sparrows and pigeons. I had to put down a beautiful hen due to this problem once. I hated doing it, but the end result would have been death due to the balloon craw, and I did not want her to suffer. The same reason I butchered a scissor beaked hen. She would eventually starve, and I did not want to pass on her genetics.

 

[RoosterCogburn7]

The chicken I put in isolation yesterday, looks much better this morning but her crop did not go down. I put her back with her sisters today, she seemed very happy to be back with the flock.
everyone seems to be doing fine this morning, i did not see any other large crops on an other chickens.
I don't know what ACV is?
thank you everyone for all your help

Apple Cider Vingegar. It is usually a natural cleaning agent, that people wash through their Kurigs or their brite tap waterers that turn green, etc.

 

[Linda Kolosik]

Are these chicks outside?
Do they still have light 24/7?

"ACV" is Apple Cider Vinegar. You had mentioned in your opening post that you put vinegar in the water. Organic or unpasteurized vinegar with the "mother" should be used, not "distilled".

They are outside and they do not have a light in the hen-house but we have a dusk to dawn light that is on and allows them to see around and me to see the chicken house form my house.
thank you for the "ACV" explanation.

 

[Glenda Heywoodo]

Well killing the chicken is needless
when you can do the sour crop surgery your self.
I have done it lots of times as we raised Powder Pigeons.
Pigeons get it a lot.
IMPACTED CROP DO'S AND DON'TS
FOR CHICKENS AND PIGEONS

When a chicken obtains a large crop.
This is generally in the summer time, when much grass is around, or in the winter time when the birds are fed whole kernel corn.
with grass it is likely to become wound up in a ball too large to go thru the opening in the crop.
With whole kernel corn it is likely to be to large to go thru the crop.
The corn issue or grain issue will occur in pigeons also.

So many chickens eat till they are stuffed. The very day you notice the crop being large and hard or sqissy do this immediately.
NOTE THIS if after you do the flush there is no change then go and do the surgery. Simply because the longer the bird is in pain from the blockage and nothing getting into the stomach for food it is closing the days for surviva.l.

Here is my advise as it should be done immediately and that is to use the oil and massage. I mention this so that every one reading my article will have the way to

MASSAGE THE CROP WITH OIL
Take and use two eye droppers of mineral or olive oil inther morning and two at nite. Do this for 3 days and see if the crop material ever ever moves.
When using oli massage the crop to get the oil involved in the impactation.
Also the oil will make some of it either go thru or maybe disolve some of the hardness.
Get her on the milk and bread only. Do not over do it, but only feed her twice a day 1 slice of bread and milk, and yoguart.

CROP FLUSH WITH SODA WATER
basically you got to FLUSH her literally with
soda water
1/2 cup baking soda
i pint warm water mix good
and using CHILD'S EAR SYRINGE ( as it has a small narrow tube on it for insertion into the back of the throat to the right side, so as not to strangle the bird)childs ear syringe to fill the crop

Fill the syringe with the soda water mixture and insert the syringe into the back of the throat as denoted above.
Have the bird (either chicken or pigeon) on a table in front of you.
Then come up from under neath the crop on the breast with your hand and fingers tightly pushing
and push hard to make the sour material come out come out the mouth. Your force has to push the sour material out as chickens or pigeons do not throw up.

The bird will open her mouth BUT do not hold her upside down but straight looking at you, looking into her face.

Do this flushing at least three times at this time. Seeing if the crop is still hard or full?
If she is not full or hard crop Then take and put her in a cage alone for a week. Do not feed her for 24 hrs.
Then the next day do this, if she has not hard crop.
take slice of bread
put 1/4 cup yoguart
1/2 cup milk
and put in plastic feeder so she can drink the yoguart and milk.
Do this twice daily for the week. she should get good gut flora back and be okay.

If the bird has hard crop or definitly fuller than normal do the surgery right then.

I would do the crop flush immediately and then if the crop was still hard do the surgery. I have don many young and old powder Pigeons this crop surgery. It is easily done and all you need is a table and some one to hold the bird. I have done it by my self but I was very self sufficient in the proceedure.

IMPACTED CROP SURGERY
Items needed
alcohol wipes
also alcohol in small dish
pint of soda water for cleaning empty crop with
DO NOT use peroxide as it destroys new skin growth
razor blade with tape on one side
pure iodine liquid
strong thread (may use light fishing string clean)
large clean needle (put in alcohol before using)

If the bird still has a hard crop by the next day It will need crop surgery
It is a large kernel of grain or a wound up grass plug she has a blocked crop - or is crop bound.

So you may have to do surgery. You will have to get some one to help you and Then you have to pluck the feathers off the crop area in the front a couple inches long strip down the crop area. With alcohol wipes wipe the skin area to be cut on.

With a sharp new razor blade that has tape over the back half of the blade leaving a cutting blade, you got to cut the crop area ( there are two sets of skin, outer skin and crop skin) thru.

So you see the hard bound material she is plugged with. Now clean out the crop with with warm soda water.
When crop is clean then flush that area with Iodine.
Now you need a sterile darning needle and heavy thread.
Take and sterilize the needle in alcohol.
Now take and put the two areas of the crop flesh ( both sections at one time) together and over stich it bak up.

Now put iodine on this Stiched flesh and daily you got to put the iodine on the wound.
The bird will heal back up in about three weeks, with your caring for it daily with fresh iodine,until she is healed
For at least 10 days only feed her water with aureomycin 1/4 tsp per qt of water daily.

Also the feed is this FOR 10 DAYS
1 Slice of brown bread soaked with 1/4 cup yoguart and 1/2 cup milk
feed in plastic feeder so she drinks the yoguart and milk. Feed this twice a day.

It will be good for the gut and also allow the soft feed to go thru the crop and not tear it open. The bird may be able to eat three slices of bread with milk and yoguart a day after first few days. This is good to establish good gut flora again in the birds gut. This helps the birds healing problem.

Now don't throw out this till she eats it for the twice a day.
As the sour milk will not hurt her.
But throw out what is left over once a day and clean feeder and restock
this mixture the next day.

Print this off so you can take it to the barn with you.
By the way that is why I never fed my chickens grass. Maybe she had a large kernel of grain ahead of that. I know it is crop bound.
She will not be able to have grains or grass from now on.
As for a while it may catch again and then have to do surgery. One lady I know had to do two or three surgeries as the hen ate cigerette filters. She then had to clean the yard of the filters.

Glenda Heywood Cassville Missouri

 

[Magepalm]

Should I look for that with my ducks? Not trying to hijack his thread just concerned. should I get rid of the grass that is in their future area? I've been killing the stuff off like crazy for my crops anyway using old boxes woodchips and hay. I thought the grass especially with the seeds would be good for em? That's what I thought about the corn but didn't want to tell him wrong. Even my area the feed stores have grit and from what I've been told there is barely a handful of poultry caretakers then again they are the only feed stores for miles and miles