Sour Dough Bread... an adventure.

[vfem]

I have rolls in the oven again I let rise over night in the oven. They all crashed, and I had to let them do a 3rd rise. They came back ok, so I put them in the oven a little while ago.

Yesterday, I tried to make 2 loaves of rye bread, their rise was TERRIBLE! They also crashed? I thought it was just the yeast, so I went and bought more last night before the snow came. I am not sure what caused it, but the bread tasted good anyways, so we're just going to eat it tonight with some veggie stew.

 

[Scoop]

I've got some bread on the first rise. Will be ready to punch it down in a few hours and put it into the loaf pan, then bake it late tonight. I had forgotten about it when I first woke up but then smelled it when I came into the kitchen. Nice reminder! I am really enjoying this sourdough bread! This time I added about 2 Tbl. of ground flaxseed. I can't wait to taste it!!!

vfem, I've had old yeast before and it just didn't rise at all. I wonder if maybe it's possible to let something rise too long? I don't know just wondering. I would have done what you did, too - another rise.

 

[bigmike&nan]

Quote:
VFEM, I was taught in school to never use more than 1/4 volume of rye flour in a bread dough. I just got a copy of THE VILLAGE BAKER by Joe Ortiz (I used to be a customer in his place in Capitola back in the 80s) and he talks about all kinds of "supplements", one he calls FARINE for starters and dough. He suggests mixing:

2 cups whole wheat flour
2 cups rye flour
2 cups semolina flour


Combine all that and add 1/2 cup of the farine to improve a 6 cup batch of dough that uses regular flour - you can add up to 3 cups farine if you want a darker loaf (I'd be wary of that much tho). Rye flour is just too heavy.

 

[vfem]

bigmike&nan :

Quote:
VFEM, I was taught in school to never use more than 1/4 volume of rye flour in a bread dough. I just got a copy of THE VILLAGE BAKER by Joe Ortiz (I used to be a customer in his place in Capitola back in the 80s) and he talks about all kinds of "supplements", one he calls FARINE for starters and dough. He suggests mixing:

2 cups whole wheat flour
2 cups rye flour
2 cups semolina flour


Combine all that and add 1/2 cup of the farine to improve a 6 cup batch of dough that uses regular flour - you can add up to 3 cups farine if you want a darker loaf (I'd be wary of that much tho). Rye flour is just too heavy.

Thank you mike! I did do 3 cups rye to 2 cups bread flour. Won't do that again! LOL

As for my sour dough rolls, they came out terrible. The after taste was horrible... like something got into them? Very bitter? Going to have to dump the whole batch.

Hopefully my italian bread will turn out ok.

The lavender biscotti I'm doing I just took out of the over looks and smells amazing!

 

[babettenj]

VFEM -I do an overnight rise with my sourdough pizza dough, BUT I do it in the fridge. I usually make the dough at night, wrap it up leaving room for expansion, and make the pizzas the following afternoon/evening for dinner, but I've even let it go for 48 hrs in the fridge with good results. I do take the dough out about an hour before to warm it up. I think leaving it all night at room temp would result in too fast a rise.

I'm doing pitas that I found here: http://sourdough.com/recipes/really-simple-sourdough-pitta. I like this recipe since it doesn't use commercial yeast. I screwed up and put the salt in on the autolyse step. DUH. Hopefully it only affects the flavor a little. I also like using a scale (in grams) when making breads. It's easier than measuring with cups and more accurate.

 

[redhen]

I want to try this sour dough stuff... but it sounds SO hard..

 

[AlabamaChickenLady]

Quote:
I agree. I wanted to learn how to do it, but it does sound really hard to do.

 

[bigmike&nan]

Quote:
I agree. I wanted to learn how to do it, but it does sound really hard to do.

Yeah it's really HARD


I use a wooden spoon to make this, I have read using metal spoons can adversely effect the process:

Mix 1/2 cup water and 1/2 cup bread flour (with a few pinches of rye flour) in a large cottage cheese or yoghurt tub
cover it and store it in a cupboard. Next day take the tub and add 1/2 cup water and flour again and mix well. Cover and put back in the cupboard.
Next day take out half of the mixture and use it as a sponge in a batch of bread or rolls. Now add back 1/2 cup water and flour
Repeat this process every day - soon you will smell a sour note to the "chef" as it is called. Soon your rolls will take on a lovely texture
Soon your freezer will be packed with bags of rolls and bread, soon your friends and neighbors will be amazed at the gifts of fresh rolls and bread you gave them

Really awesome professional starters take a long time to develop - years, decades, centuries. But you can make a very good sourdough by just repeating the above process.
You forget to replenish your starter for a day or two, fret not, just repeat the remove half and then add 1/2 cup flour and water - it will kick back into gear (as it were)[

What kicks this thing into sour mode: the natural yeast in the bread and rye flour. Sure you CAN use all purpose flour but I believe you get a heartier yeast environment with unbleached and less processed flours. Whole wheat flour, rye flour, semolina flour.

Good luck - it is FUN...

 

[Kim_NC]

I don't find it hard at all....but OK, I've been making breads for about 30 yrs. Not that I'm all "that old"...LOL.....I started young in college.

The most difficult thing for most people is getting a starter going. But once you have it, it's very easy to keep. I store mine in the refrig. Then I get it out each Thur evening, right before bed and feed it. Fridays I bake several loaves (along with other types) and take those to a farmers on Sat. I feed the starter once more on Fri at the end of the baking day, and return it to the refrig until the following week.

Regarding the Rye....I usually add vital wheat gltuen to any bread recipe using heavy grains. About 1 Tbl of vital wheat gluten per cup of heavy flour. Vital wheat gluten helps the yeast build a stronger structure in heavy grain. Also, during Winter months I give heavy dough a warm place to rise. Close to the cookstove when we have it burning, or in the oven with just the oven light on.

That said, I do not use vital wheat gltuen in the Multigrain Sourdough recipe I shared above. The sourdough starter is enough to help that recipe proof/rise without added gluten. Vfem....try that recipe....it'll be easier than a "plain" rye. Once you have that working, then take another shot at a rye recipe.


ETA: My favorite rye recipe uses 3/4 cup Rye Flour and 2 1/4 cups Bread Flour (unbleached). But it's not a sourdough so I didn't post it here.

 

[Scoop]

Quote:
I agree. I wanted to learn how to do it, but it does sound really hard to do.

Oh my! It's not hard at all! Just have the recipe, whatever one you choose, in front of you and go step by step. Maybe the first time you may want to check off what you've done as you go along and even write which day you are supposed to bake the bread. I think it's almost easier than doing a loaf of bread all in one day. And yes, as Mike said, it's very forgiving if you forget to stir it or add to it. Just revive it when you remember.

I recently made a loaf with a bit of ground flax seed and boy did I love that! It had a fruity/nutty smell to it as it rose. The bread is just delicious, I really love toasting it!

I agree that you should try to stay away from bleached flours. Remember they only whiten it to make it "look nicer" and who knows what they add to keep out bugs. I recently thru out some regular bleached flour because DD and I thought it smelled weird. We were thinking that somehow it went bad, but now I think it's because we've used the good unbleached flours for so long that we were able to notice how gross bleached flour is.