A better picture of her. She is under the rooster facing me. She could be wider and typier but because Mr Mottled was so awesome......her improvements on mottling should balance with the type.
South Carolina
- Thread starter enola
- Start date
Quote:
Check out this website about keets/adult colors
http://guineafowl.com/fritsfarm/guineas/colors/index.html
w w w . g u i n e a f o w l . c o m has lots of good info.
Check out this website about keets/adult colors
http://guineafowl.com/fritsfarm/guineas/colors/index.html
w w w . g u i n e a f o w l . c o m has lots of good info.
Quote:
Joy, you did wonderful!! You got a wide range of colors: I think the first one is a pied Royal Purple but it could also be a Chocolate, the second one look Pearl to me, the third I believe is Opaline--which is a lighter version of the Coral Blues, forth is lavender and 5 could be lavender but it look a little more like a Brown. They are all beautiful!!
Did you not get any dark Coral Blues?
That second one looks odd? I do not think it is a true pearl but with the dark black stripe in the head it will be interesting to see what it does turn out to be since the back is not pearl????
Joy, you did wonderful!! You got a wide range of colors: I think the first one is a pied Royal Purple but it could also be a Chocolate, the second one look Pearl to me, the third I believe is Opaline--which is a lighter version of the Coral Blues, forth is lavender and 5 could be lavender but it look a little more like a Brown. They are all beautiful!!
Did you not get any dark Coral Blues?
That second one looks odd? I do not think it is a true pearl but with the dark black stripe in the head it will be interesting to see what it does turn out to be since the back is not pearl????
Last edited:
WestKnollAmy
The Crazy Chicken Lady
Quote:
She does have a lot of great Mottling for me. Her cushion is pretty big and full but I see what you mean about her width. Her chest could be in better conformity to her height but maybe it will balance out in this fella. I have high hopes unless you get another one growing up that looks better and you don't want to keep.
I looked at the boys that were in the tractor where you took your recent girl from and there is one boy that is absolutely so nice in type but I don't see any white on him. He is black, for pete's sake! I have to get away from that or just start breeding blacks!
She does have a lot of great Mottling for me. Her cushion is pretty big and full but I see what you mean about her width. Her chest could be in better conformity to her height but maybe it will balance out in this fella. I have high hopes unless you get another one growing up that looks better and you don't want to keep.
I looked at the boys that were in the tractor where you took your recent girl from and there is one boy that is absolutely so nice in type but I don't see any white on him. He is black, for pete's sake! I have to get away from that or just start breeding blacks!
Just got 2 new eggs today...I thought the merger would cause a few to not lay but my Lil Red and the barred both laid first eggs this morn(i was out there supervising) I am sure they are first eggs as I havent gotten any this small and light in weeks!!! I may have a 7 egg day!!!!! 8 if my D'uccle lays but she seems to lay every other day!!
WestKnollAmy
The Crazy Chicken Lady
Quote:
Joy, you did wonderful!! You got a wide range of colors: I think the first one is a pied Royal Purple but it could also be a Chocolate, the second one look Pearl to me, the third I believe is Opaline--which is a lighter version of the Coral Blues, forth is lavender and 5 could be lavender but it look a little more like a Brown. They are all beautiful!!
Did you not get any dark Coral Blues?
That second one looks odd? I do not think it is a true pearl but with the dark black stripe in the head it will be interesting to see what it does turn out to be since the back is not pearl????
Cool info, Heidi!
It will be neat to see if that one turns into a chocolate. I haven't seen one of those before. I hope Joy keeps snapping lots of photos for us!
Oh, an Opaline! That would be gorgeous!
What a neat bunch of keets. Love your input Heidi. I just am still having a hard time with keet colors and then they throw those Teddy Bears in there and I am left scratching my head and wondering how to retain all this new stuff.
Joy, you did wonderful!! You got a wide range of colors: I think the first one is a pied Royal Purple but it could also be a Chocolate, the second one look Pearl to me, the third I believe is Opaline--which is a lighter version of the Coral Blues, forth is lavender and 5 could be lavender but it look a little more like a Brown. They are all beautiful!!
Did you not get any dark Coral Blues?
That second one looks odd? I do not think it is a true pearl but with the dark black stripe in the head it will be interesting to see what it does turn out to be since the back is not pearl????
Cool info, Heidi!
It will be neat to see if that one turns into a chocolate. I haven't seen one of those before. I hope Joy keeps snapping lots of photos for us!
Oh, an Opaline! That would be gorgeous!
What a neat bunch of keets. Love your input Heidi. I just am still having a hard time with keet colors and then they throw those Teddy Bears in there and I am left scratching my head and wondering how to retain all this new stuff.
Quote:
Joy, you did wonderful!! You got a wide range of colors: I think the first one is a pied Royal Purple but it could also be a Chocolate, the second one look Pearl to me, the third I believe is Opaline--which is a lighter version of the Coral Blues, forth is lavender and 5 could be lavender but it look a little more like a Brown. They are all beautiful!!
Did you not get any dark Coral Blues?
That second one looks odd? I do not think it is a true pearl but with the dark black stripe in the head it will be interesting to see what it does turn out to be since the back is not pearl????
Cool info, Heidi!
It will be neat to see if that one turns into a chocolate. I haven't seen one of those before. I hope Joy keeps snapping lots of photos for us!
Oh, an Opaline! That would be gorgeous!
What a neat bunch of keets. Love your input Heidi. I just am still having a hard time with keet colors and then they throw those Teddy Bears in there and I am left scratching my head and wondering how to retain all this new stuff.
Don't worry, they can still fool me!! It will be neat to see how they develop!!
Joy, you did wonderful!! You got a wide range of colors: I think the first one is a pied Royal Purple but it could also be a Chocolate, the second one look Pearl to me, the third I believe is Opaline--which is a lighter version of the Coral Blues, forth is lavender and 5 could be lavender but it look a little more like a Brown. They are all beautiful!!
Did you not get any dark Coral Blues?
That second one looks odd? I do not think it is a true pearl but with the dark black stripe in the head it will be interesting to see what it does turn out to be since the back is not pearl????
Cool info, Heidi!
It will be neat to see if that one turns into a chocolate. I haven't seen one of those before. I hope Joy keeps snapping lots of photos for us!
Oh, an Opaline! That would be gorgeous!
What a neat bunch of keets. Love your input Heidi. I just am still having a hard time with keet colors and then they throw those Teddy Bears in there and I am left scratching my head and wondering how to retain all this new stuff.
Don't worry, they can still fool me!! It will be neat to see how they develop!!
Quote:
Well - Wiki didn't really prove anything other than there is controversy over the beginnings of these chickens. It posted both sides of the story. Still haven't been able to find anything that proves one way or the other.....and probably won't.
How about "My Pet Chicken" - this is their description:
"Booted Bantams are the same as the famous Belgian Bearded D'Uccle Bantam breed, except Booted bantams are non-bearded."
So here's more info that states they were not originally from the same breed/breeder or even the same place.
http://www.belgianduccle.org/page8.html
Now I'm wondering, if these were two completely different breeds then how did I get both from one bloodline? I got eggs from a very reputable breeder of d'uccle's and he shows his birds. But I definately have some wattles instead of beards and muffs and I haven't crossed them with anything. My thinking that they came from the same background made me think it was normal. Still not sure what to think as I love my books from Storey's and they tell me they come from the same place. Hmmmmm..........
I guess I'm glad mine are just pets and I don't want to show them. I don't sell them as show quality either, although others have shown my birds and won.
LOL
Cool conversation. I hated having to go off to bed last night.
One of seven, you are right. Wiki is a source that puts in all kinds of ideas that do not have hard facts. Anyone can put up their own version of answers to please themselves. I never look on there anymore since they were busted for it.
I certainly would not go by what My Pet Chicken says as they are a hatchery (actually just the middle man for Meyer Hatchery) and are not a dependable source for info. They will tell you Ameraucanas/Araucanas are the same bird when we all know what they sell are Easter Eggers. No one has gotten a tufted, rumpless chick from these hatcheries but they were still pushing this line up until last year before they had to start making changes to their wording and putting in disclaimers. So hatcheries are not to be believed in what they say about a breed.
Joy, the d'Uccle was made up of other breeds. The d'Anver is a clean legged, rose combed bird. It would take a lot of breeding to change those qualities over other than the feather legs as that is a dominant trait so that would pop up in the first generation on at least half the chicks and the second generation would have all feather legged chicks. Mixing birds of different breeds together until they breed true is how they get new breeds and since the d'Uccle has been around for about 100 years breeding true then I believe they are pure now. Including Booted Bantam and Antwerp gave them the qualities that they needed and wanted. The Booted Bantam has been in existence longer. They are indeed two separate breeds even though claimed by the same club just like the Rabbit (ARBA) and Cavy (ACBA) club. The cavy club is governed by the rabbit club but rabbits and Guinea Pigs are 2 very different animals.
The link you gave, which is the same link I put in my post, is the breed club. I would believe them over all others. That is the SOP (standard of perfection) and what is accepted in the US for showing and breeding birds. This is what we breed for to keep from creating just anything and saying it is a breed.
I think if you are getting chicks pop out with both qualities of different breeds then they have been mixed together and are carrying the genes for both breeds. No offense, but showing birds in fairs or 4H is not really a good example. Those are not APA or ABA shows and the judges are not up on the standards of the breeds. They may glean a bit of info on almost 400 poultry breeds in our country but they don't have the knowledge of all the breeds like an APA judge does.
The only true source for info on a breed is the standard. We may or may not breed for it. I would be interested in knowing more about the gentleman and his birds where yours came from. If he is breeding these together I do not understand how he is keeping the conformation correct enough to win in sanctioned shows. If they have muffs, beards and wattles they would be disqualified. Or if they are clean faced they could not be shown as d'Uccles. As the standard states they need to have the "U" shape or the "V" shape depending on what breed being exhibited. And the weights are certainly a big factor for these birds, too.
I know you have stated that the little fella you got from me is a lot smaller than the pullet you paired him with and I was worried that mine were too small but I weighed them and they are the correct weight for the breed.
I haven't ever thought otherwise about the origin of the birds being created by Mr Gelder but I do believe that the Booted Bantam and the d'Uccle are totally separate breeds and must be bred with their own kind to make pure birds. They are built differently and have different qualities. If you are getting both qualities out of these and the weights are not what the standard states then someone has mixed the bloodlines together. But they are your birds and if you are happy with them that is all that matters! Just like I love my big old JG/Langsahn cross girls. And I will love the little mix breed chicks I get from Toby and Bride.
Again, fascinating discussion on breeds and origins! I love discussions like this.
Well, I don't show my birds and have no desire to get into that at this point. But the man that mine came from was/is very serious about showing at sanctioned shows, not fairs. My little 10 year old customer won a blue ribbon at the Fair with my bird this year and I was excited for her. Others have shown at the Clemson show I believe unless there is another one in Anderson, and the birds have placed. I don't know how well or if you consider that to be a "real show" either, like I said it's not really important to me. I'm still trying to wrap my head around how these breeds originated and where my "odd" birds are coming from. For instance this year I have a rooster, feather legged, vulture hocks etc. but he's silver laced and has a rosecomb. I'm thinking that would come from the D'anvers. A lot of information still combines the two and doesn't give many details about it, probably because they don't know for sure. As for your little porcelain roo, he was much smaller than my hen because he was a chick and she was an adult.
Sadly, I will never know how big he would be because I lost him to some illness. He was one that died this summer and I haven't had the heart to tell you.
My little blue hen is a D'uccle with muffs and everything. I just still need a nice rooster to put with her. Also wanted to point out that according to the SOP the weights of these 2 breeds are exactly the same. I've compared info from the SOP page and my Storey's book (because I've come to rely on my book and was disappointed that some of the info might be wrong). Everything except the exact orgination of the breeds is in agreement. There is lots of conflicting stories out there if you google it, I just posted Wiki and MPC because those are 2 that everybody recognizes. This is one subject that I will continue to dig into as I have the time.
Well - Wiki didn't really prove anything other than there is controversy over the beginnings of these chickens. It posted both sides of the story. Still haven't been able to find anything that proves one way or the other.....and probably won't.
How about "My Pet Chicken" - this is their description:
"Booted Bantams are the same as the famous Belgian Bearded D'Uccle Bantam breed, except Booted bantams are non-bearded."
So here's more info that states they were not originally from the same breed/breeder or even the same place.
http://www.belgianduccle.org/page8.html
Now I'm wondering, if these were two completely different breeds then how did I get both from one bloodline? I got eggs from a very reputable breeder of d'uccle's and he shows his birds. But I definately have some wattles instead of beards and muffs and I haven't crossed them with anything. My thinking that they came from the same background made me think it was normal. Still not sure what to think as I love my books from Storey's and they tell me they come from the same place. Hmmmmm..........
LOL
Cool conversation. I hated having to go off to bed last night.
One of seven, you are right. Wiki is a source that puts in all kinds of ideas that do not have hard facts. Anyone can put up their own version of answers to please themselves. I never look on there anymore since they were busted for it.
I certainly would not go by what My Pet Chicken says as they are a hatchery (actually just the middle man for Meyer Hatchery) and are not a dependable source for info. They will tell you Ameraucanas/Araucanas are the same bird when we all know what they sell are Easter Eggers. No one has gotten a tufted, rumpless chick from these hatcheries but they were still pushing this line up until last year before they had to start making changes to their wording and putting in disclaimers. So hatcheries are not to be believed in what they say about a breed.
Joy, the d'Uccle was made up of other breeds. The d'Anver is a clean legged, rose combed bird. It would take a lot of breeding to change those qualities over other than the feather legs as that is a dominant trait so that would pop up in the first generation on at least half the chicks and the second generation would have all feather legged chicks. Mixing birds of different breeds together until they breed true is how they get new breeds and since the d'Uccle has been around for about 100 years breeding true then I believe they are pure now. Including Booted Bantam and Antwerp gave them the qualities that they needed and wanted. The Booted Bantam has been in existence longer. They are indeed two separate breeds even though claimed by the same club just like the Rabbit (ARBA) and Cavy (ACBA) club. The cavy club is governed by the rabbit club but rabbits and Guinea Pigs are 2 very different animals.
The link you gave, which is the same link I put in my post, is the breed club. I would believe them over all others. That is the SOP (standard of perfection) and what is accepted in the US for showing and breeding birds. This is what we breed for to keep from creating just anything and saying it is a breed.
I think if you are getting chicks pop out with both qualities of different breeds then they have been mixed together and are carrying the genes for both breeds. No offense, but showing birds in fairs or 4H is not really a good example. Those are not APA or ABA shows and the judges are not up on the standards of the breeds. They may glean a bit of info on almost 400 poultry breeds in our country but they don't have the knowledge of all the breeds like an APA judge does.
The only true source for info on a breed is the standard. We may or may not breed for it. I would be interested in knowing more about the gentleman and his birds where yours came from. If he is breeding these together I do not understand how he is keeping the conformation correct enough to win in sanctioned shows. If they have muffs, beards and wattles they would be disqualified. Or if they are clean faced they could not be shown as d'Uccles. As the standard states they need to have the "U" shape or the "V" shape depending on what breed being exhibited. And the weights are certainly a big factor for these birds, too.
I know you have stated that the little fella you got from me is a lot smaller than the pullet you paired him with and I was worried that mine were too small but I weighed them and they are the correct weight for the breed.
I haven't ever thought otherwise about the origin of the birds being created by Mr Gelder but I do believe that the Booted Bantam and the d'Uccle are totally separate breeds and must be bred with their own kind to make pure birds. They are built differently and have different qualities. If you are getting both qualities out of these and the weights are not what the standard states then someone has mixed the bloodlines together. But they are your birds and if you are happy with them that is all that matters! Just like I love my big old JG/Langsahn cross girls. And I will love the little mix breed chicks I get from Toby and Bride.
Again, fascinating discussion on breeds and origins! I love discussions like this.
Well, I don't show my birds and have no desire to get into that at this point. But the man that mine came from was/is very serious about showing at sanctioned shows, not fairs. My little 10 year old customer won a blue ribbon at the Fair with my bird this year and I was excited for her. Others have shown at the Clemson show I believe unless there is another one in Anderson, and the birds have placed. I don't know how well or if you consider that to be a "real show" either, like I said it's not really important to me. I'm still trying to wrap my head around how these breeds originated and where my "odd" birds are coming from. For instance this year I have a rooster, feather legged, vulture hocks etc. but he's silver laced and has a rosecomb. I'm thinking that would come from the D'anvers. A lot of information still combines the two and doesn't give many details about it, probably because they don't know for sure. As for your little porcelain roo, he was much smaller than my hen because he was a chick and she was an adult.
Quote:
Cool info, Heidi!
It will be neat to see if that one turns into a chocolate. I haven't seen one of those before. I hope Joy keeps snapping lots of photos for us!
Oh, an Opaline! That would be gorgeous!
What a neat bunch of keets. Love your input Heidi. I just am still having a hard time with keet colors and then they throw those Teddy Bears in there and I am left scratching my head and wondering how to retain all this new stuff.
Don't worry, they can still fool me!! It will be neat to see how they develop!!
Thanks to both of you for the input. I will make more pictures for sure. I think I have 2 that could be slate blues, with the reddish backs. They look like Amy's chick on her website. I have the one that is solid white, not a stripe of anything on her. And the couple that look lavender are different shades so I'm thinking at least one of them is different. I've had lavender before so can't wait to see what the darker one turns into. I'm thrilled with them, whatever colors I end up with. And those royal purple pieds are so cute with their white tummies. I haven't had pied before either. Thanks again!
Cool info, Heidi!
It will be neat to see if that one turns into a chocolate. I haven't seen one of those before. I hope Joy keeps snapping lots of photos for us!
Oh, an Opaline! That would be gorgeous!
What a neat bunch of keets. Love your input Heidi. I just am still having a hard time with keet colors and then they throw those Teddy Bears in there and I am left scratching my head and wondering how to retain all this new stuff.
Don't worry, they can still fool me!! It will be neat to see how they develop!!
Thanks to both of you for the input. I will make more pictures for sure. I think I have 2 that could be slate blues, with the reddish backs. They look like Amy's chick on her website. I have the one that is solid white, not a stripe of anything on her. And the couple that look lavender are different shades so I'm thinking at least one of them is different. I've had lavender before so can't wait to see what the darker one turns into. I'm thrilled with them, whatever colors I end up with. And those royal purple pieds are so cute with their white tummies. I haven't had pied before either. Thanks again!
WestKnollAmy
The Crazy Chicken Lady
Quote:
Kimberly said she hatched out a chick from your eggs and thought it was a blue. If it is a roo maybe you could put those together and get more blues to hatch out.
Speaking of Kimberly, we haven't seen Chickychickybaby on here in a few weeks. Wonder what is going on?
Kimberly said she hatched out a chick from your eggs and thought it was a blue. If it is a roo maybe you could put those together and get more blues to hatch out.
Speaking of Kimberly, we haven't seen Chickychickybaby on here in a few weeks. Wonder what is going on?
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