South Carolina

[Joycats]

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Well - Wiki didn't really prove anything other than there is controversy over the beginnings of these chickens. It posted both sides of the story. Still haven't been able to find anything that proves one way or the other.....and probably won't.

How about "My Pet Chicken" - this is their description:
"Booted Bantams are the same as the famous Belgian Bearded D'Uccle Bantam breed, except Booted bantams are non-bearded."

So here's more info that states they were not originally from the same breed/breeder or even the same place.
http://www.belgianduccle.org/page8.html

Now I'm wondering, if these were two completely different breeds then how did I get both from one bloodline? I got eggs from a very reputable breeder of d'uccle's and he shows his birds. But I definately have some wattles instead of beards and muffs and I haven't crossed them with anything. My thinking that they came from the same background made me think it was normal. Still not sure what to think as I love my books from Storey's and they tell me they come from the same place. Hmmmmm..........

I guess I'm glad mine are just pets and I don't want to show them. I don't sell them as show quality either, although others have shown my birds and won.

 

[Joycats]

Ok, got some pics of my guinea keets - hope I don't overload ya'll with them but I really want to know what I've got. I've got colors that I've never had before! So exciting!

So.....what do you think I have??????

Meant to mention that there are 2 chicks in there with them. The big brown chick in the middle is my La Fleche baby and there's one little black cochin chick. I also didn't get a pic of the reddish one that I think is a slate blue keet. Darn it, I thought I had a close up of him.

 

[Jackie B.]

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We could trade for some D'Uccles....

You want some D'uccles? we could work something out I'm sure

Ladiessssssss y'all keep my head spinning! So if course after I take a pic of my gorgeous blrw she goes missing

. And I'm thinking the only way to get rid of my 2 bantam Cochin cockerels is to pair them with my black frizzles to sell at the Clemson show so yes, there I just justified D'uccles! Yay!

 

[NellaBean]

Amy.....here is the flashy young dude. He feathered out really late....so I am hoping his type improves, as he looks nowhere near as nice as the other boys.....but his feathers are only just now starting to fill in, so I still have hope! Lol

My favorite boy of the bunch.

They were all being relatively sweet yesterday......glad they grew out of the angry attack phase.

 

[Jackie B.]

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Oh, Jackie! Jaques has really gotten a lot prettier! Er.....more handsome! I have his brother still but he isn't near as handsome.

Those Guineas are ultra cute! That is simply amazing that they eat from your hand and you can pick them up. But screaming comes naturally to them when held, for sure! They scream a lot of times when I take them from the hatcher. I think those are the girls.

You have done a fantastic job in training them to be real birds and not spazzes! Mine are certainly the more spaz like keets.


I can't see Jacques feet but look at his brothers foot feathers. Unreal and he lives in the Muscovy pen on dirt and grass.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/9332_10-11_jacs_bro.jpg

He isn't as gorgeous as Jaques but I like him because he has that buckskin color and my favorite Quarter horses were always the buckskins. We owned quite a few at one time.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/9332_10-11_buckskin.jpg

Yup Jaques' feet feathers probably span 3 inches. They are full and beautiful but not mottled like your boys! They are amazing!

 

[WestKnollAmy]

Quote:
Well - Wiki didn't really prove anything other than there is controversy over the beginnings of these chickens. It posted both sides of the story. Still haven't been able to find anything that proves one way or the other.....and probably won't.

How about "My Pet Chicken" - this is their description:
"Booted Bantams are the same as the famous Belgian Bearded D'Uccle Bantam breed, except Booted bantams are non-bearded."

So here's more info that states they were not originally from the same breed/breeder or even the same place.
http://www.belgianduccle.org/page8.html

Now I'm wondering, if these were two completely different breeds then how did I get both from one bloodline? I got eggs from a very reputable breeder of d'uccle's and he shows his birds. But I definately have some wattles instead of beards and muffs and I haven't crossed them with anything. My thinking that they came from the same background made me think it was normal. Still not sure what to think as I love my books from Storey's and they tell me they come from the same place. Hmmmmm..........

I guess I'm glad mine are just pets and I don't want to show them. I don't sell them as show quality either, although others have shown my birds and won.

LOL
Cool conversation. I hated having to go off to bed last night.
One of seven, you are right. Wiki is a source that puts in all kinds of ideas that do not have hard facts. Anyone can put up their own version of answers to please themselves. I never look on there anymore since they were busted for it.

I certainly would not go by what My Pet Chicken says as they are a hatchery (actually just the middle man for Meyer Hatchery) and are not a dependable source for info. They will tell you Ameraucanas/Araucanas are the same bird when we all know what they sell are Easter Eggers. No one has gotten a tufted, rumpless chick from these hatcheries but they were still pushing this line up until last year before they had to start making changes to their wording and putting in disclaimers. So hatcheries are not to be believed in what they say about a breed.

Joy, the d'Uccle was made up of other breeds. The d'Anver is a clean legged, rose combed bird. It would take a lot of breeding to change those qualities over other than the feather legs as that is a dominant trait so that would pop up in the first generation on at least half the chicks and the second generation would have all feather legged chicks. Mixing birds of different breeds together until they breed true is how they get new breeds and since the d'Uccle has been around for about 100 years breeding true then I believe they are pure now. Including Booted Bantam and Antwerp gave them the qualities that they needed and wanted. The Booted Bantam has been in existence longer. They are indeed two separate breeds even though claimed by the same club just like the Rabbit (ARBA) and Cavy (ACBA) club. The cavy club is governed by the rabbit club but rabbits and Guinea Pigs are 2 very different animals.

The link you gave, which is the same link I put in my post, is the breed club. I would believe them over all others. That is the SOP (standard of perfection) and what is accepted in the US for showing and breeding birds. This is what we breed for to keep from creating just anything and saying it is a breed.

I think if you are getting chicks pop out with both qualities of different breeds then they have been mixed together and are carrying the genes for both breeds. No offense, but showing birds in fairs or 4H is not really a good example. Those are not APA or ABA shows and the judges are not up on the standards of the breeds. They may glean a bit of info on almost 400 poultry breeds in our country but they don't have the knowledge of all the breeds like an APA judge does.

The only true source for info on a breed is the standard. We may or may not breed for it. I would be interested in knowing more about the gentleman and his birds where yours came from. If he is breeding these together I do not understand how he is keeping the conformation correct enough to win in sanctioned shows. If they have muffs, beards and wattles they would be disqualified. Or if they are clean faced they could not be shown as d'Uccles. As the standard states they need to have the "U" shape or the "V" shape depending on what breed being exhibited. And the weights are certainly a big factor for these birds, too.
I know you have stated that the little fella you got from me is a lot smaller than the pullet you paired him with and I was worried that mine were too small but I weighed them and they are the correct weight for the breed.

I haven't ever thought otherwise about the origin of the birds being created by Mr Gelder but I do believe that the Booted Bantam and the d'Uccle are totally separate breeds and must be bred with their own kind to make pure birds. They are built differently and have different qualities. If you are getting both qualities out of these and the weights are not what the standard states then someone has mixed the bloodlines together. But they are your birds and if you are happy with them that is all that matters! Just like I love my big old JG/Langsahn cross girls. And I will love the little mix breed chicks I get from Toby and Bride.

Again, fascinating discussion on breeds and origins! I love discussions like this.

 

[WestKnollAmy]

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Gosh, no, Joy! You did not overload us with tons of cuteness! OMG, they are so adorable! I totally love keets. I would love my older ones more but they really resent me holding and kissing on them for some reason.

The first one you are holding in your hand looks like a Royal Purple pied. But I am no expert on them yet. I am still studying and trying to learn all about them.
The second one in your hand is a lavender, I believe. It looks rather dark though so I am not sure about that one.
The third one looks white but I think I see some faint lines on the head, maybe a buff dundotte but I don't think there is enough color. Maybe that's a coral blue!
The fourth looks like a lavender.
The 5th one looks like a lavender, too.
But again, I am still learning and hope to glean more info from what others say they are.

Looking in your box I see Royal Purple pieds, lavs and dundottes. I think I spotted some coral blues. I am thinking that I see one or two in the first box but can't be sure. My website shows mine and I labeled the photos as to what Heidi and others told me they were.
Ohhhh, do get a photo of the red one! I have the photo of mine slate on my website. She is getting blue feathers in now. I have to get a photo of her today to show how much she has changed.

 

[WestKnollAmy]

Jackie B. :

Quote:
You want some D'uccles? we could work something out I'm sure

Ladiessssssss y'all keep my head spinning! So if course after I take a pic of my gorgeous blrw she goes missing

. And I'm thinking the only way to get rid of my 2 bantam Cochin cockerels is to pair them with my black frizzles to sell at the Clemson show so yes, there I just justified D'uccles! Yay!​

Jackie! You are a mess! I'm glad you are planning on going to the Clemson show. I do not plan to take anything to sell there as I hope to have everything gone at the Morganton show but I shall see. I have a lot of chicks growing up that I may move on out so I don't have to deal with any more brooders. For some reason I just keep on hatching out Silkie chicks! I certainly do not remember setting all those eggs.

 

[WestKnollAmy]

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Janelle! Flashy! I like him! I hope he keeps all that white since I have a lot of girls that aren't showing any. He has decent type. You can see his back is improving and his chest should fill out more.
The one you like best is totally awesome.

I hope he proves to be a show potential bird!
Glad to hear they grew out of the butt head stage. But boys will be boys.

 

[NellaBean]

I'm really thinking their mom is this bird. She has a lot of white but her type isn't the best. HOWEVER......she has a wide cushion....Mr mottled was short and wide and she is a bit taller but still has width across her back. Not as good as my other girls but I didn't exactly have a choice! LOL.

The black mottled on the right.