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Well - Wiki didn't really prove anything other than there is controversy over the beginnings of these chickens. It posted both sides of the story. Still haven't been able to find anything that proves one way or the other.....and probably won't.
How about "My Pet Chicken" - this is their description:
"Booted Bantams are the same as the famous Belgian Bearded D'Uccle Bantam breed, except Booted bantams are non-bearded."
So here's more info that states they were not originally from the same breed/breeder or even the same place.
http://www.belgianduccle.org/page8.html
Now I'm wondering, if these were two completely different breeds then how did I get both from one bloodline? I got eggs from a very reputable breeder of d'uccle's and he shows his birds. But I definately have some wattles instead of beards and muffs and I haven't crossed them with anything. My thinking that they came from the same background made me think it was normal. Still not sure what to think as I love my books from Storey's and they tell me they come from the same place. Hmmmmm..........
I guess I'm glad mine are just pets and I don't want to show them. I don't sell them as show quality either, although others have shown my birds and won.
LOL
Cool conversation. I hated having to go off to bed last night.
One of seven, you are right. Wiki is a source that puts in all kinds of ideas that do not have hard facts. Anyone can put up their own version of answers to please themselves. I never look on there anymore since they were busted for it.
I certainly would not go by what My Pet Chicken says as they are a hatchery (actually just the middle man for Meyer Hatchery) and are not a dependable source for info. They will tell you Ameraucanas/Araucanas are the same bird when we all know what they sell are Easter Eggers. No one has gotten a tufted, rumpless chick from these hatcheries but they were still pushing this line up until last year before they had to start making changes to their wording and putting in disclaimers. So hatcheries are not to be believed in what they say about a breed.
Joy, the d'Uccle was made up of other breeds. The d'Anver is a clean legged, rose combed bird. It would take a lot of breeding to change those qualities over other than the feather legs as that is a dominant trait so that would pop up in the first generation on at least half the chicks and the second generation would have all feather legged chicks. Mixing birds of different breeds together until they breed true is how they get new breeds and since the d'Uccle has been around for about 100 years breeding true then I believe they are pure now. Including Booted Bantam and Antwerp gave them the qualities that they needed and wanted. The Booted Bantam has been in existence longer. They are indeed two separate breeds even though claimed by the same club just like the Rabbit (ARBA) and Cavy (ACBA) club. The cavy club is governed by the rabbit club but rabbits and Guinea Pigs are 2 very different animals.
The link you gave, which is the same link I put in my post, is the breed club. I would believe them over all others. That is the SOP (standard of perfection) and what is accepted in the US for showing and breeding birds. This is what we breed for to keep from creating just anything and saying it is a breed.
I think if you are getting chicks pop out with both qualities of different breeds then they have been mixed together and are carrying the genes for both breeds. No offense, but showing birds in fairs or 4H is not really a good example. Those are not APA or ABA shows and the judges are not up on the standards of the breeds. They may glean a bit of info on almost 400 poultry breeds in our country but they don't have the knowledge of all the breeds like an APA judge does.
The only true source for info on a breed is the standard. We may or may not breed for it. I would be interested in knowing more about the gentleman and his birds where yours came from. If he is breeding these together I do not understand how he is keeping the conformation correct enough to win in sanctioned shows. If they have muffs, beards and wattles they would be disqualified. Or if they are clean faced they could not be shown as d'Uccles. As the standard states they need to have the "U" shape or the "V" shape depending on what breed being exhibited. And the weights are certainly a big factor for these birds, too.
I know you have stated that the little fella you got from me is a lot smaller than the pullet you paired him with and I was worried that mine were too small but I weighed them and they are the correct weight for the breed.
I haven't ever thought otherwise about the origin of the birds being created by Mr Gelder but I do believe that the Booted Bantam and the d'Uccle are totally separate breeds and must be bred with their own kind to make pure birds. They are built differently and have different qualities. If you are getting both qualities out of these and the weights are not what the standard states then someone has mixed the bloodlines together. But they are your birds and if you are happy with them that is all that matters! Just like I love my big old JG/Langsahn cross girls. And I will love the little mix breed chicks I get from Toby and Bride.
Again, fascinating discussion on breeds and origins! I love discussions like this.
