Southern NY, Dutchess county and below

[JerseyHen]

Just checking in for a quick hello to everyone. Heather! So glad to hear you are getting settled! Tell the girls that Lilly says hi. I have not been to the sussex fair yet, but since I have to be in Newton on the 10th... I suppose I will have to stop in on the way home.

Ok, my semi-annual rant... for those of you who do not eat meat (and I was a raw vegan for a lot of years) I hope not to offend, but here goes...

Did anyone else see this? http://www.northjersey.com/news/Sec..._pet_chickens_pleads_to_zoning_violation.html

So this guy raises poultry, albeit against the zoning (like we don't know anyone who does that, right), and the city tells him he has to get rid of his poultry, because he is not allowed to raise livestock. So he processes them, or some of them, but the city stops by while it is happening and stops the processing. Then they arrest him and charge him with animal cruelty. Now, I get it, many people raise birds for pets. I also get that most people who raise pets of any kind are also meat eaters (so are many of their pets). Tell me this... you can't keep poultry because they are not pets, they are livestock, but you can't process them because they are pets not livestock. That is what put this guy in court. This frightens me. We are so disconnected from our food. I consider it a chicken owners responsibility to know when and how to cull and to be able to process if desired. That said, if he was cruel to the birds in any way or did a poor job of processing I could understand, but that just doesn't seem to be the case. How is this animal cruelty and a commercial poultry operation is not? Just wow. "They found a freezer full of chicken parts". I don't know about you, but I have chicken, cow, pig, fish, and sheep parts in mine (and I am practically a vegetarian these days). Folks should be more comfy with where their food comes from. I wonder where his poultry that was rescued ended up? Think the local pound is going to keep them or "humanely" put them down? It is called meat. People eat it. I bet they put them down and put them in the incinerator.

What is this world coming to? Next they will be telling me I can't have a garden.

p.s. welcome to all the new/newer folks, I am not generally quite this contentious.

 

[Sallysec]

Wow that is unsettling. I know here where I live you cannot process poultry on your property. We can own them but not kill them. Maybe that is the case by him, but it seems pretty wrong to me. I know by me the problem was sacrificial killings etc that got the processing of bird banned. They would leave behind the blood and remains etc causing other issues (smell/rodents) .

I agree with you that we are way too disconnected from our food. It is one of the reasons my father convinced me to get chickens .and the reason I garden...for my kids to have some kind of relationship with food that is healthy.

 

[Imprfctme]

Just checking in for a quick hello to everyone. Heather! So glad to hear you are getting settled! Tell the girls that Lilly says hi. I have not been to the sussex fair yet, but since I have to be in Newton on the 10th... I suppose I will have to stop in on the way home.

Ok, my semi-annual rant... for those of you who do not eat meat (and I was a raw vegan for a lot of years) I hope not to offend, but here goes...

Did anyone else see this? http://www.northjersey.com/news/Sec..._pet_chickens_pleads_to_zoning_violation.html

So this guy raises poultry, albeit against the zoning (like we don't know anyone who does that, right), and the city tells him he has to get rid of his poultry, because he is not allowed to raise livestock. So he processes them, or some of them, but the city stops by while it is happening and stops the processing. Then they arrest him and charge him with animal cruelty. Now, I get it, many people raise birds for pets. I also get that most people who raise pets of any kind are also meat eaters (so are many of their pets). Tell me this... you can't keep poultry because they are not pets, they are livestock, but you can't process them because they are pets not livestock. That is what put this guy in court. This frightens me. We are so disconnected from our food. I consider it a chicken owners responsibility to know when and how to cull and to be able to process if desired. That said, if he was cruel to the birds in any way or did a poor job of processing I could understand, but that just doesn't seem to be the case. How is this animal cruelty and a commercial poultry operation is not? Just wow. "They found a freezer full of chicken parts". I don't know about you, but I have chicken, cow, pig, fish, and sheep parts in mine (and I am practically a vegetarian these days). Folks should be more comfy with where their food comes from. I wonder where his poultry that was rescued ended up? Think the local pound is going to keep them or "humanely" put them down? It is called meat. People eat it. I bet they put them down and put them in the incinerator.

What is this world coming to? Next they will be telling me I can't have a garden.

p.s. welcome to all the new/newer folks, I am not generally quite this contentious.

Oh lord, is all I can say. That is insane, a real Catch-22. He must feel like there is a hidden camera show going on around him! Down here everyone is ok with processing, and I mean *everyone*. I guess when you drive past beef cattle every day you're going to be comfortable with the idea of where your steak comes from. SallySec I remember exactly what that was, that was an ultra-orthodox group that was slaughtering chickens as part of a religious ceremony and then as you say, leaving a huge mess behind that was attracting rats and other nasty things. Not at all the same thing as processing 10birds. There was also an incident with a religious school slaughtering a calf by hanging it from a tree in the front yard of a residential neighborhood and slitting its throat, again, not really ok with that either. But doing it quickly, cleanly and humanely? Surely that has to be better than the factory farming. I hope this guy gets a good pro bono lawyer to get the city off his back, seems pretty stupid to me.

I am also wary of the claims that "hipsters" are abandoning chickens. I think more people are getting chickens as pets and more people are abandoning them when their living situations change or whatever. It's sad but unfortunately it's nothing different than what happens with dogs, cats, rabbits, reptiles, etc. everyday. Just like any other animal that you take on you have to be prepared to take care of it through to the end of its life no matter what. I met some new neighbors here and found out that they gave away their "White" Labrador (he kept correcting me) because he got to be 125lbs which was too big. Hello? Did they read the breed standard ahead of time? They only got the dog because - wait for it - that was the kind of dog the Earl of Grantham had on Downton Abbey. Flash forward a few hours and too many bottles of wine (theirs) later, and the husband pulled my dog's ear until she cried. I was thisclose to kicking him in the nuts but restrained myself as they have three girls that will go to school with my kids. He's just a jack-bass moron. Certainly won't be letting them near my kids or dog again for that matter.

On the other hand I have nice older neighbors that have a Komondor and a rescue cocker spaniel that are super big dog lovers, and she brought over a pot roast for us when we first got here so I will be their friend for life, much like my dog was when she got the beef leftovers.

OK enough ranting! Sorry! Don't know where that came from! You can take the girl out of NY but you can't take the NY out of the girl.



We went to the Fort Worth Stockyards and paid a man $5 for the girls to sit on a real Longhorn. He was very sweet (the steer that is).



Pearl Guineas at a Lavender farm we visited. When I asked the farmer about the many, many birds (hens, guineas, parrot, pigeons, feeders, etc.) she said, "Oh they're my brother's. He's a real Bird Nerd." I started laughing and I told her about Donna's t-shirt, and she said she's going to check it out. They were very nice and the farm was so pretty.

 

[Sallysec]

Yup Heather that is exactly what it was but it basically ruined it for everyone. I heard now though that they are going to try and approve a commercial slaughtering house there.

 

[JerseyHen]

Heather, that is a super cool pic. Were they afraid to get on that bull?

Yeah, religious sacrifices.... yikes. There was an issue with a farm near here selling goats "on the hoof" for that sort of thing.

In this situation it would have made sense if it was a no livestock no processing ordinance (or secondary to a complaint about poor management of those practices), but that is not how it is described. It was certainly not animal cruelty. Non-processing ordinances make sense to me, if they actually work. They are supposed to protect the person consuming the meat from illness and as you have pointed out, to protect those around from improperly managed offal. Funny thing is, commercially produced meat has caused its fair share of illness and it is usually on a large scale when it happens, not to mention the poor quality of the meat (even organic). What about the deer that my family kills every year? Can I still process them in the yard since they are game and not livestock? How is that so different?

What are we supposed to do when having to cull a bird for illness or injury? Bring it to a vet to have it put down? Is it odd that I view a chicken differently than I do my dog? Now I feel conflicted... In case you think I am cruel, please know that I am currently hand feeding and watering a blind, week-old, chick. It will probably turn out to be a rooster. This one will get a pass, because it is definitely a pet. We even named it "Peep Squeak".

I also have issues with the chicken abandonment by fad following back to the earth people that don't commit to the animal. They got into it and should get out of it in a proper way. They are going to cause all of us grief when new ordinances get passed to prevent this practice. I was chatting about this with an older relative a few months ago. His response "why would they leave a perfectly good chicken dinner on the side of the road?". Different times, I guess. Someone I work with got on my case about the processing of excess roosters. She is a vegetarian and eats eggs. I asked her what she thought happens to all of the extra roos from commercial egg operations (or small operations for that matter). That kind of put an end to the conversation. There are only so many rooster sanctuaries around.

It is amazing to me how controversial the chicken keeping thing is for some.

 

[Sallysec]

It's a political topic around me because of the ultra religious practices and the fact that they are trying to open a processing plant nearby.

I don't think I mentioned this but I took the two new chicks we hatched to my sons school. The kids Loved it and the three teachers kept asking me questions. People stopped us in the hall...it was really a wonderful day. I brought a book from a fellow BYC lady to read to the class. Peanut the fuzzy chicken ...it's about a silkie and they LOVED it.
I came away from the experience cracking up laughing because of the questions. One little boy raised his hand and asked me if chicks can go in pockets

 

[stoopid]

Go on vacation?
Hah I haven't been on a vacation in over 10 years because of all my birds.
No, it isn't as easy as finding someone. They just aren't good enough for my "just a bunch of chickens".
Christine, Vera and I will be going down on the 10th for a day at the fair....

 

[queenchick16]

My husband and I go on separate vacations. Although my friend Loretta also has chickens and we usually help each other out.

I'm glad to see that legislators in other parts at the country have their heads just as far up their bASSES as they do in Islip.
Having a husband as a veterinarian the stories are just unbelievable as to how people treat their "pets". At one point I had 13 "reject" animals in this tiny house 'cause of a**holes. It has gotten 10 times worse in this economic crisis over the past several years. He could write a best seller.

Didn't know anything about coffee chaff . I'd be out cause my girls get everthing and anything in their water and apparently if it gets wet it turns slimy.

Hello heather.... I think of you every time I pass my red okra .

 

[stoopid]

Use oxine in the water to keep the slime down.

 

[Imprfctme]

Heather, that is a super cool pic. Were they afraid to get on that bull?

Yeah, religious sacrifices.... yikes. There was an issue with a farm near here selling goats "on the hoof" for that sort of thing.

In this situation it would have made sense if it was a no livestock no processing ordinance (or secondary to a complaint about poor management of those practices), but that is not how it is described. It was certainly not animal cruelty. Non-processing ordinances make sense to me, if they actually work. They are supposed to protect the person consuming the meat from illness and as you have pointed out, to protect those around from improperly managed offal. Funny thing is, commercially produced meat has caused its fair share of illness and it is usually on a large scale when it happens, not to mention the poor quality of the meat (even organic). What about the deer that my family kills every year? Can I still process them in the yard since they are game and not livestock? How is that so different?

What are we supposed to do when having to cull a bird for illness or injury? Bring it to a vet to have it put down? Is it odd that I view a chicken differently than I do my dog? Now I feel conflicted... In case you think I am cruel, please know that I am currently hand feeding and watering a blind, week-old, chick. It will probably turn out to be a rooster. This one will get a pass, because it is definitely a pet. We even named it "Peep Squeak".

I also have issues with the chicken abandonment by fad following back to the earth people that don't commit to the animal. They got into it and should get out of it in a proper way. They are going to cause all of us grief when new ordinances get passed to prevent this practice. I was chatting about this with an older relative a few months ago. His response "why would they leave a perfectly good chicken dinner on the side of the road?". Different times, I guess. Someone I work with got on my case about the processing of excess roosters. She is a vegetarian and eats eggs. I asked her what she thought happens to all of the extra roos from commercial egg operations (or small operations for that matter). That kind of put an end to the conversation. There are only so many rooster sanctuaries around.

It is amazing to me how controversial the chicken keeping thing is for some.

First - laughing at the dinner on the side of the road comment. Too true, and too funny.
I think you are absolutely humane and kind, don't even - - Having worked with vets and around animal rescue places for my whole life, sometimes the most humane thing to do is end a life. When I was pregnant with my second daughter, I was volunteering at the SPCA doing the spay/neuter clinic and we had a batch of feral cats come in. We'd spay them and give them to horse people with barns for rodent control. Anyway, this one cat turned out to be pregnant, and the procedure was to put the kittens down. Everyone was worried about me being pregnant, but to me, it was a far kinder thing to do than to have yet another batch of kittens that needed a home when we could barely get the ones we already had adopted out. I am an animal lover through and through, but having seen no-kill shelters and ones that make hard choices, I will stand by hard choices every time. The no-kill shelters were all overcrowded and unsanitary; there was one that just got shut down here in North Texas because the conditions were so bad. It's a hard choice to make, again, but sometimes it is the responsible thing to do and if you are really an animal lover you make the decision based on what's best for the animal, not you.

Whenever someone asks me about taking care of chickens, the first thing I do is tell them, "where are you going to put the poop?" then "what will you do when they get sick / stop laying / old?" because that is the hard part of loving chickens. Day to day they are a joy and a breeze to care for, but it is the hard questions that you have to address before you commit.

I still haven't decided if I'm going to try and convince the HOA openly to let me have chickens or if I'm going to sneak them in. I think the main problem they have is snobbery; meanwhile, I can't imagine anything prettier than a flock of Japanese Phoenix roaming the grounds, can you? The problem is the pretty ones tend to make the most noise... But remembering the Montrose controversy is making me think twice about sneaking them in. Laws are laws... groan. Maybe I'll see if the time is right to discuss it with someone...