# Spangling and Campines

#### Spangled

##### Songster
8 Years
If I have some golden campines, what would I breed them with to get spangled chicks? Not laced.

Is that possible? Or does the Ml have to be linked to the Pg and Db?

The calculator (which is wonderful) shows that with a Ml Black Copper Marans (also ER based as is the campine) will give me spangled in a generation or two if I pick the right chicks to breed with. Is that true or am I inputting the incorrect data?

I am concerned that the Pg-DB-Ml must be there and that I won't have it if I pull the Ml from the melanize Black Copper Marans, which means that I wouldn't get any spangled chicks.

#### Henk69

##### Crowing
That is indeed the problem.

Another problem is that it might not be Ml in the Marans.

This calculator http://kippenjungle.nl/kruisingCO.html
is better suited to calculate your chances, but it is not very simple to use.

In words: Ml must be crossed over in between the genes from your campines (Db-Ml-Pg)

I prepared a hyperlink for you

http://kippenjungle.nl/kruisingCO.h...pg+\$1&fgt=E:E^R/E^R,Db:Db\$3/Db\$4,Pg:Pg\$3/Pg\$4

It is the backcross to a campine hen.

When you press the punnet square button you see that the first row has the desired crossing over product.

The desired crosslings would be spangled on the breast and pencilled on their backs.

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#### Spangled

##### Songster
8 Years
Wow. Thanks! That link was helpful. I'm sure I'm not comprehending the linkage idea completely, but I've got a glimmer of understanding.

Maybe my crossings could work like this:
First cross BCMarans(melanized) w/ Gold Campine
2nd cross: Male from above cross bred back to Gold Campine
3rd cross: mate the best incompletely spangled chickens to each other with some resulting spangled chicks.

Fingers-crossed that the BCMarans is melanized. He looks like it and the official French Marans website lists them as melanized.

Off the top of your head do you know what the down will look like on any of the Campine crossed chicks?

I know the Campines are leopard skinned as chicks. I'm guessing that some of the mixed chicks will be dark brown because of the Db.

I guess spangling wouldn't be easily sustainable in a mixed flock. I would expect that keeping spangling in a mixed flock would be particularly difficult if any of the other flock members were carrying Co. If I managed to "make" spangled chicks, I would have to keep a separately mated sub-flock to maintain the spangling, which wouldn't not be simple.

Thanks for your chicken calculators. They are very fun to fiddle with, um, experiment with if fiddle with doesn't translate easily. The calulators provide hours of entertainment. Your grove/jungle photos, at your web site, are quite lovely.

#### Henk69

##### Crowing
Ml=melanotic
there are other melanizers

Double laced Barnevelders are a source of Ml (db+-Ml-Pg, e^b base)

Db does not make the chick down darkbrown unless it would have been black without the Db
E^R roosters without Db would be black breasted. Db on hens is harder to spot.

Do not just select for spangling but also for best transverse pencilling on the back.
Ml can cause spangling on its own, so try not to lose the Db and Pg.
Backcrossing to campines would prevent that.

Keep us in the loop...

#### Spangled

##### Songster
8 Years
Thanks a lot for extra info. I have so much to learn.

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