Speckledhen's Ten Commandments of Good Flock Management

[speckledhen]

I agree. Sounds like I should worm my flock with Valbazen once, since I never have. Thank you!

You're welcome. Valbazen was recommended to me by a man who has had chickens maybe as long as I've been alive and is an NPIP tester for Georgia and a breeder of very fine quality heritage birds. I'd take his advice to the bank any day. It's not a cheap wormer compared to others, but it gets the job done safely. There are places online where you can buy smaller quantities than my big bottle, which lasts a long time, even with my 40+/- birds I usually have here.

 

[frankdust]

Have 5, 8 month old French Black Copper Maran's Roosters and trying to decide which 3 to keep. All 5 are beautiful roosters but 2 have solid black chest and other 3 have specks of copper on chest. Which is better solid black chest or lightly copper speckled chest for meeting standard requirements?

 

[speckledhen]

Have 5, 8 month old French Black Copper Maran's Roosters and trying to decide which 3 to keep. All 5 are beautiful roosters but 2 have solid black chest and other 3 have specks of copper on chest. Which is better solid black chest or lightly copper speckled chest for meeting standard requirements?

I think it might be more helpful to you if you post in a breeds section. I have never had any BCMs so not up on what the proper coloration is, sorry.

 

[Ms Biddy]

Thank you, @speckledhen for posting this. I'm sorry it turned into a debate. It has given me some things to think about from a different perspective and I appreciate that so much!

 

[speckledhen]

Thank you, @speckledhen for posting this. I'm sorry it turned into a debate. It has given me some things to think about from a different perspective and I appreciate that so much!

I'm happy it was beneficial to you! Thanks for the comment.

 

[ShrekDawg]

Thank you. The first time I ever wormed a flock, two years after they hatched, was when I saw a roundworm in one rooster's poop. So, everyone was wormed. I think I used Safeguard paste, can't recall exactly. Then, they were pretty much wormed once a year after that, unless I felt a specific need to worm one group of birds an extra time.
Natural wormers are only mild preventatives and will not kill all worms or the tougher worms like capillaria or tapeworms. Curcurbit in pumpkin seeds is one of those, but it cannot be depended on to worm reliably. Garlic doesn't worm birds. It may be an immune system booster, but given in excess can cause anemia, I've read. DE does not worm birds because it loses cutting power when wet, which it is inside a chicken. And I use it in my coops under the roosts but see all sorts of worms in my compost pile, a warm wet environment with lots of DE from the piled-up shavings.

Since worms can kill if they completely overrun the chicken's system, they really should be wormed about once a year, IMO, using the safest, all-inclusive wormer which is Valbazen. Valbazen kills all poultry worms and starves them out over a 3 day period so as to not clog the system with dead worms. Invermectin has become ineffective for many people, though the pour-on is easy to use and cheap. That used to be my choice until a bird was necropsied just a couple months after worming and had both roundworms and capillaria (not the cause of death, just an adjunct to her internal infection). I understand you're supposed to rotate wormers, but not sure it would help if the one you rotate with an ineffective wormer.

Penned birds need worming more than birds who are out on lush forage, free-ranging regularly. Since mine have had less free range time and more time inside the barn, I've had to worm twice a year. An otherwise healthy bird can handle a mild worm load without it affecting its health adversely, but best to not allow them to build up to overload.

Natural is all well and good...until it doesn't work. Since worms are a drag on the system, seems a little nuts to hold onto a natural principle that isn't working and sacrifice the health of the animal.

Thanks for this info. I was just wondering if I should worm my flock.

I only have 7 (used to be 8) and they are usually penned and in a pretty small coop and pen. It's actually technically too small but we built them a new one which they will move to as soon as I can move the run or get a new one.

The current one is just a stupid like 3x3 coop kit from TSC that's practically falling apart already hah and a 6x12 dog kennel but the coop is inside the run so it takes up a lot of room and the run is kinda split cause it has fence on the bottom (raised up 2 feet).

They are 2 years old, hatched October 26th, 2015 from Meyer Hatchery.

I have never wormed before. But I do not see any worms in poop.

But recently I have noticed that some of them have poop on their butts? What does this mean?

Admittedly the coop was gross and hadn't been fully cleaned out in a while (last time I just added a bag of shavings on top of the old), so maybe they are just dirty cause the pen is? But yesterday I fully cleaned it out, down to the tray, and put D.E. down and a full bag of shavings. So they should, hopefully be happy, and I will clean more often.

But they have never had this issue before despite being mostly penned their life. I used to let them free ramge but predator attacks have happened.

Anyway, I don't know what causes poopy butt but what are some possible causes?

 

[speckledhen]

Thanks for this info. I was just wondering if I should worm my flock.

I only have 7 (used to be 8) and they are usually penned and in a pretty small coop and pen. It's actually technically too small but we built them a new one which they will move to as soon as I can move the run or get a new one.

The current one is just a stupid like 3x3 coop kit from TSC that's practically falling apart already hah and a 6x12 dog kennel but the coop is inside the run so it takes up a lot of room and the run is kinda split cause it has fence on the bottom (raised up 2 feet).

They are 2 years old, hatched October 26th, 2015 from Meyer Hatchery.

I have never wormed before. But I do not see any worms in poop.

But recently I have noticed that some of them have poop on their butts? What does this mean?

Admittedly the coop was gross and hadn't been fully cleaned out in a while (last time I just added a bag of shavings on top of the old), so maybe they are just dirty cause the pen is? But yesterday I fully cleaned it out, down to the tray, and put D.E. down and a full bag of shavings. So they should, hopefully be happy, and I will clean more often.

But they have never had this issue before despite being mostly penned their life. I used to let them free ramge but predator attacks have happened.

Anyway, I don't know what causes poopy butt but what are some possible causes?

First, you won't always see worms in the poop, even if they have them. Roundworms are easier to see than tapeworms, but you may not if you don't look really fast as soon at they deposit the poop.
Messy bums can be ill birds but I find some may not distribute the oil from their oil gland and their fluff is too dry. I call it Velcro Fluff, LOL. Others never had this issue and they have Teflon Fluff, it all rolls off.

I did not worm my first flock until they were 2 years old, but they were almost always free ranging, not in a pen all the time. Free rangers are less prone to worm overload, IMO. I only wormed mine the first time because I saw a roundworm in one bird's poop so I wormed them all. And since them, I've pretty much done yearly wormings, until the last couple of years, when I've had to increase that because they spend less time on range and outside (new all-in-one barn, separate pens, must rotate outside time).

 

[ShrekDawg]

First, you won't always see worms in the poop, even if they have them. Roundworms are easier to see than tapeworms, but you may not if you don't look really fast as soon at they deposit the poop.
Messy bums can be ill birds but I find some may not distribute the oil from their oil gland and their fluff is too dry. I call it Velcro Fluff, LOL. Others never had this issue and they have Teflon Fluff, it all rolls off.

I did not worm my first flock until they were 2 years old, but they were almost always free ranging, not in a pen all the time. Free rangers are less prone to worm overload, IMO. I only wormed mine the first time because I saw a roundworm in one bird's poop so I wormed them all. And since them, I've pretty much done yearly wormings, until the last couple of years, when I've had to increase that because they spend less time on range and outside (new all-in-one barn, separate pens, must rotate outside time).

I didn't realize you couldn't always see them. Is there a way to tell for sure then? If they have never been wormed do you recommend worming at least once in their life or is it best to not until there is a problem?

Yeah, mine are usually in the pen but I do feel bad about it. I let them out yesterday while I cleaned and they were so happy. I might do it more. I lost the 8th one, my favorite chicken, a little Buff Orpington named Penny, to a hawk a few months ago so since then I've been more nervous about it.

And LOL I like those descriptions of the feathers. That is definitely true!

The only reason I am concerned is because they have never had this issue before. Or I should say a couple have had a tiny bit of poop on them but it goes away, this is a lot, on several, and has been maybe a week? Could be longer, I don't always look closely

 

[speckledhen]

I didn't realize you couldn't always see them. Is there a way to tell for sure then? If they have never been wormed do you recommend worming at least once in their life or is it best to not until there is a problem?

Yeah, mine are usually in the pen but I do feel bad about it. I let them out yesterday while I cleaned and they were so happy. I might do it more. I lost the 8th one, my favorite chicken, a little Buff Orpington named Penny, to a hawk a few months ago so since then I've been more nervous about it.

And LOL I like those descriptions of the feathers. That is definitely true!

The only reason I am concerned is because they have never had this issue before. Or I should say a couple have had a tiny bit of poop on them but it goes away, this is a lot, on several, and has been maybe a week? Could be longer, I don't always look closely

If the birds look ratty, maybe dull feathers, are losing weight, seem less than energetic, you could have a worm issue (though it could be something else, too-internal laying/egg yolk peritonitis can begin around that age and they'd begin to show signs of not being in peak condition from that as well). If you're not really sure and you've never wormed them, couldn't hurt to do it, just to be safe, especially since they are penned all the time.

I use Valbazen now, a broad-spectrum wormer, which kills all the worms a chicken can get, plus it is safer because it basically starves them out over a several day period, doesn't kill them all at once. In cases of heavy worm loads, that can clog their system and they could be worse off rather than better. It costs more than some others, but it's also more effective than others and if you do Wazine/Piperazine, that kills only roundworms. If they have tapeworms or gapeworms or capillaria, it won't touch those and you'd have to get yet another wormer to kill the other worms. At least, that's what I do. However, roundworms are the most common. I just wormed some of mine two days ago, saw roundworms in the poop and I feel it's because I under-dosed them four months ago. I upped their dosage and we'll see how this goes (they're huge Brahmas).

 

[ShrekDawg]

If the birds look ratty, maybe dull feathers, are losing weight, seem less than energetic, you could have a worm issue (though it could be something else, too-internal laying/egg yolk peritonitis can begin around that age and they'd begin to show signs of not being in peak condition from that as well). If you're not really sure and you've never wormed them, couldn't hurt to do it, just to be safe, especially since they are penned all the time.

I use Valbazen now, a broad-spectrum wormer, which kills all the worms a chicken can get, plus it is safer because it basically starves them out over a several day period, doesn't kill them all at once. In cases of heavy worm loads, that can clog their system and they could be worse off rather than better. It costs more than some others, but it's also more effective than others and if you do Wazine/Piperazine, that kills only roundworms. If they have tapeworms or gapeworms or capillaria, it won't touch those and you'd have to get yet another wormer to kill the other worms. At least, that's what I do. However, roundworms are the most common. I just wormed some of mine two days ago, saw roundworms in the poop and I feel it's because I under-dosed them four months ago. I upped their dosage and we'll see how this goes (they're huge Brahmas).

Thanks for the input. That's the weird thing, none of them have any other signs. They do tend to sleep on the roof though so maybe they accidentally sit in the poop? Maybe they just need a good dust bath?