Standard Cornish vs. Cornish-X

[jaku]

Quote:
I thought the son of sam was in NY? Not good....

Which reminds me... why do the voices never tell crazy people to do GOOD things?

 

[paduanchook]

Yes, it is a matter of what you want from them, my family and
I enjoy looking out on the yard from the kitchen window and seeing
beautiful birds that entertain us. Brahmas as eye candy and turkeys
that talk back to me. I'm trying to teach my kids to respect life, and
to me, Cornish x is a travesty. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to
it! Lol! But I respect others rights and opinions to raise them.
I also believe we are what we eat, to eat a lazy, unnatural bird does
affect us, I choose to eat birds that are strong, full of vitality. But
that's me, and everyone should have the right to raise a bird of their on
choosing, that's the American way

 

[CARS]

Quote:
I thought the son of sam was in NY? Not good....

Which reminds me... why do the voices never tell crazy people to do GOOD things?

Like get a thread completely off off-topic???

 

[CARS]

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But I think that is a misconception. My Cornish X's rarely die, have leg problems, or just sit there and eat. Of course, I make them move in a pasture but I think that is just good management. My birds grow fast, but they are strong and healthy.

 

[jaku]

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But have you ever raised Cornish X's? They are VERY active birds- not at all lazy. They are also very healthy when you raise them properly, which isn't difficult at all. As someone else said, there are no "natural" birds- they've all been selectively bred for the charactoristics we want.

 

[Buster52]

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All birds have been selectively bred, but most can live past 12 weeks old and don't die at that young age due to organ failure.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "natural". For me, the Cornish Cross just ain't. They are born of an industry that considers animals to be machines, and are the extreme example of what happens with such thinking.

That and they can talk!

No, wait... that's the dog. Never mind.

 

[Brunty_Farms]

Quote:
All birds have been selectively bred, but most can live past 12 weeks old and don't die at that young age due to organ failure.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "natural". For me, the Cornish Cross just ain't. They are born of an industry that considers animals to be machines, and are the extreme example of what happens with such thinking.

That and they can talk!

No, wait... that's the dog. Never mind.

Again... that's an assumption... I don't see where people are getting these from? They live to breeding age just fine. I have 8 females right now that are thriving and literally are getting frustrated with all the snow... they find a piece of grass and they run to it.

l understand that cornish x's might not be for your but try not to make false assumptions on the breed based on false literature, pictures on the web, or even news. I read an article on Mother Earth News about cornish x's and they were slammed by them for no reason. There is a fine line between eye candy and losing money when raising chickens for meat... bottom line you lose money on heritage (unless you sell them for $5-6 / pound). SO maybe it's not about the money and your looking for flavor, well since flavor is affected by the amino acids a bird develops as it ages... it's not hard to raise a cornish x to 15 weeks and get that same flavor. In return you will get a 14 lb dressed weight chicken with the exact flavor of the dp breeds. Now the argument comes down to what? How pretty they look in your yard? I respect that... I will respect the fact that 20 different breeds of roosters are eye candy when grazing over pasture. I would believe that, over the argument that they taste better, or heart problems, or they are not natural.

Chickens are chickens.... the only thing that really effects the taste is age, feed, and how they are raised. There is a very slight difference in taste between breeds and 95% of people wouldn't taste the difference anyways. The difference between a 15 week old cornish and a 15 week old dark cornish is what? It's not taste... especially if they were allowed to graze over the same pasture... my cornish x hens graze just as far as my buckeyes (which buckeyes are supposed to be aggressive foragers) the difference would be in how much meat you would get from each bird. For my efforts, time, money... I would stick with the one that is the most efficient.

But then define efficient? Buying chicks every year from a hatchery is not your thing... and I respect that above all. You can't argue the fact that Cornish x's come from an outside sources, not like hatching your own. But for some, hatching your own just takes to much time... My point is... there are legit reasons to want / not want cornish x's and there are some that are based on absurd assumptions. When I hear people say I'm not raising cornish x's because they taste like mush, they are lazy, and die easy... I just want to make sure they are not mislead because those are assumptions.

I've raised both.... heritage and hybrids and they both have their place. I've raised them both to breeding age no problem.... so I guess the next thing would be to see how the taste in side by side comparison in a soup?

 

[Buster52]

Hold on, Jeff. I have said repeatedly in this thread that it is all about what you want in a bird, and was very specific when I said for me, from my perspective, the Cornish X is not a natural breed or a good one for my purposes. Unless you jump through hoops to keep them alive, they die at a very young age.

I have also said in other threads on the subject that I don't blame vendors for raising X birds because of all the pressures you are under from the conventional meat industry. Heck, I would much rather see these birds raised humanely by people like you and Jaku and Joel Salatin than by them. Salatin is my agrarian hero, yet I steadfastly disagree with him on this issue.

But I don't personally consider them a sustainable breed. And neither do you, if you will admit it. You are trying to create a new bred from their genetics, something that will breed true, grow to a good size, without the CX's downsides.

And lets not pretend those don't exists. Just that for you and others, the upsides outweigh the downsides. For me and others on here, they don't. I prefer the downsides of my heritage breeds.

As to taste, well... there are chefs worldwide who know just a little more about that sort of thing than you or I who would beg to differ.

 

[Brunty_Farms]

Unless you jump through hoops to keep them alive, they die at a very young age.

I've debunked that myth... literally all I do is give them only a scoop a feed a day. I'm just waiting for eggs.

But I don't personally consider them a sustainable breed. And neither do you, if you will admit it. You are trying to create a new bred from their genetics, something that will breed true, grow to a good size, without the CX's downsides.

I do agree... and I do admit it. But the only reason why I'm even getting into trying to raise my own is the fact that I hate giving hatcheries my money. But I have to if I want to offer a product that is acceptable to my customers.

And lets not pretend those don't exists. Just that for you and others, the upsides outweigh the downsides. For me and others on here, they don't. I prefer the downsides of my heritage breeds.

Of course they exist... but like anything, it's how they are raised. I don't see the problems that big producers see, probably because I'm not doing half the things they say is mandatory. Every once in a while I will see a few that are culls which will include 1% leg failure and about 5% stunted growth (they don't have the muscle genes I guess and grow like a DP). I don't have problems with Ascites or any other FLIP type diseases.

As to taste, well... there are chefs worldwide who know just a little more about that sort of thing than you or I who would beg to differ.

As for taste... I don't think a chef has really tried to cook a 14 lb 15 week old cornish x's. They are not readily available.... like I said the only thing that effects taste is the age, what its fed, how it was raised, and I guess now that you mentioned it... the cook that cooks it.

I agree they are unsustainable, but a lot of the assumptions that are said about cornish x's are just that... assumptions.​

 

[Buster52]

Let me try a different tack...

1. They are not engineered to live past 10 or 12 weeks.

2. Nobody raises them past that on a regular basis the way we do heritage breeds, so there is no way to know if it can be done. Five or six hens (I see no mention of roosters) is not a scientific sampling. You would need a much larger sampling to determine what the morbidity rate was and whether or not that rate was acceptable.

3. There is a great deal of evidence of attendant physical problems even with Cornish X who are butchered when recommended at 6 to 8 weeks of age.

4. Seems to me you have mentioned losses higher than 10% for birds butchered within that time frame. It stands to reason morbidity would be even higher if they were frequently raised beyond their expected brief lifespan. "Fickle" I believe you called them. They are apparently even worse when raised in confinement, according to your reports. I do not want to raise a bird whose hold on life can be characterized as fickle.

5. Those CX in your picture look remarkably small to me. I would have expected adult birds to be much larger. I have to wonder if you purposely selected the runts of the batch to raise to adulthood, which would then skew the results.

On the taste thing, there are heritage breeds that chefs claim taste better than both the CX and other heritage breeds, so it isn't just an age thing. I would assume the heritage birds are typically raised to about the same age. Just as the Bourbon Red and Holland white taste best among turkeys, there are chickens that taste better than others.