Standard rule of breeding. The female should always be listed first in a cross! ...then no need to s

[bamadude]

Yep. Thats it.
Ty

 

[bamadude]

Still not gonna post a video though lol

 

[Michael OShay]

Its not unusual to be loved by anyone.....
I forget the rest of the song

I don't remember most of the words to it, but I do know that Tom Jones sang it. )

 

[aurissavannahs]

There is a rule in breeding that you always list the female parent first! In this case the hen. The reason for this is to standardize the literature and eliminate confusion. There is no need to say which is the hen or rooster because it is understood. This can eliminate confusion in instances where there are differences between the results of the cross due to the parental order such as sexlinked traits. I have been researching autosexed breeds, sexlinks and crosses with the same. While trying to follow the threads I have run into many instances where people talk about their crosses and share pictures alternating the order of the parents til you aren't sure which way the cross was done or how to intemperate the results. and it all becomes meaningless.
Another reason for this rule is that it is easier to be sure of the female parent than the male, where there can sometimes be a surprise.
Please share this rule with others as it will help simplify discussions and eliminate confusion. A benefit may be to make make results more searchable. Ie what happens when I cross Barred Rock x blue Ameraucana vs Blue Ameraucana x Barred Rock.

Since I have spent my life as a college professor teaching biology and listing the male parent first for mammals. I did some research on google scholar and found that the male is listed first in scientific literature on poultry. However, the researchers do specify the order of the cross in each article to be sure they are clear. That is not difficult and will prevent confusion. The following are examples of research articles in various species of poultry:

Divergent selection for body weight and yolk precursor in Coturnix coturnix japonica. 12. Heterosis in reciprocal crosses between divergently selected lines
Y Moritsu, KE Nestor, DO Noble, NB Anthony and WL Bacon
Poultry Science (1997) 76 (3):437-444.doi: 10.1093/ps/76.3.437
http://ps.oxfordjournals.org/content/76/3/437.short
“No offspring were obtained from the HW x LW matings (male listed first).“

Genetics of Growth and Reproduction in the Turkey 4. Strain Crossing For Improvement of Growth and Reproduction
KE Nestor - Poultry Science, 1971 - ps.oxfordjournals.org
... 2 Difference between means which is significant (P<.05) (Snedecor, 1959). 3 Male parent listed first in cross. ... Crosses of the large strain males with a commercial medium weight strain did not result in heterosis in body weight and conformation. …

Genetic resistance to leukosis caused by the JM virus in the fowl
F Han, JR Smyth, M Sevoian, FN Dickinson - Poultry science, 1969 - ps.oxfordjournals.org
... Total 84 47.6 44.7 69.0 48.8 6.0 19.0 82.1 1 Fay = Fayoumi; NH = New Hampshire; BL=Light Brown Leghorn. 2 Male parent listed first. 8 Total leukosis susceptible—Includes all birds with one or more positive lesions. ... be more susceptible to the JM virus than were males. …

Use of full diallel cross to estimate crossbreeding effects in laying chickens
WM Razuki, SA Al-Shaheen - International Journal of Poultry …, 2011 - docsdrive.com
... Each group included 864 hens from three genotypes (288 hens from each breeds or lines) and 108 cocks (1 male to 8 females' ratio). ... 'Males are listed first in cross; WL= White Leghom, BR = Iraqi local Brown, NH = New Hampshire. Sig. ...

 

[windyridgefarm]

Interesting, I would never have thought they would do it differently in plants and animals. The way we group things in plant breeding is by family lines. Following the male line would not work. It only takes a little stray pollen and you would be following the wrong family lines from then on. It is much easier to be sure of the female line. I wonder what their reasoning is for putting the male first?

 

[aurissavannahs]

I would say that in animal breeding the male is first because the male can produce many more offspring than the female. With animals if you can't control the breeding and know who the father is than you are not a breeder. Poultry breeding has traditionally been done with 1 rooster and a group of hens so it was possible to know the father but not know the individual mother. Poultry scientist use the 1 male to many females too, most of the time 1 male to 10 females. Trap nests and individual pairs are the only way to know who the mother is as hens happily lay in the same nests.

 

[Pyxis]

I would say that in animal breeding the male is first because the male can produce many more offspring than the female. With animals if you can't control the breeding and know who the father is than you are not a breeder. Poultry breeding has traditionally been done with 1 rooster and a group of hens so it was possible to know the father but not know the individual mother. Poultry scientist use the 1 male to many females too most of the time 1 male to 10 females. Trap nests and individual pairs are the only way to know who the mother is as hens happily lay in the same nests.

X2, as I said in my earlier post, it's much easier to know the father than the mother with traditional breeding methods, short of trap nesting or marking vents.

 

[draye]

Interesting, I would never have thought they would do it differently in plants and animals. The way we group things in plant breeding is by family lines. Following the male line would not work. It only takes a little stray pollen and you would be following the wrong family lines from then on. It is much easier to be sure of the female line. I wonder what their reasoning is for putting the male first?   

Because that's the way it is. Also it makes the most since.

 

[NatureChica]

If I think of it as (known first) then for plants it makes sense to list F then M. For chickens it doesn't not make sense.
-contemplating the hilarity of figuring out who to list first for seahorses (male is the one who gives birth)-

We have the easier species to deal with for certain.

 

[aurissavannahs]

I think the important thing is to be clear in communications. Everyone will not know the standard of male first so somewhere in each post the poster should indicate how he/she is listing the breedings. Stating "males listed first" would take care of the confusion and encourage others to follow the example. Abbreviations are also defined in scientific papers to prevent confusion. ex: Cream Legbar (CL) when the information first appears in the post. It might seem a pain to do the extra typing but it is really quicker than needing to answer questions from confused readers.